Paintball

[shartley]

Originally Posted by JOESPUD27

Mod. Stock Class 4 Life! It really is the most fun I've had playing paintball.

Jay

Are you a member of the LPPC?

http://lppc.blackleafoutfitters.com

[JOESPUD27]

Not yet, fine I'll sign up...heh heh You have an Email

Jay

[MrJR]

Originally Posted by shartley

You state pump only. But really as long as the cycling action is manual it is still stock class.

Right, good point. What is an elegant and all-inclusive way to say "Operated using manual action such as pump, push button, or bolt action, such that marker can fire one shot each time it is cocked" ?

Originally Posted by SpinDoctor15

Don't forget no auto-trigger in the first tier rules. The Phantom has an autotrigger, but the rule is rarely enforced... plus it's pretty hard to use it in VSC mode with any effectiveness, unless you're pointing slightly downward.

I put that rule in the bottom tier. It might merit second tier at highest. Rarely enforced = eclectic rule.

Originally Posted by WilD

This is mostly covered by the term "bucket changer" but language I have seen several times before describes the requirement for the 12 gram to "pass through the threads" of the changer. I'm not sure if that really adds anything to your description, but its how I've seen it before and may help clarify for people who don't know what a bucket changer is. However, this language seems to exclude stock Nelspots and the Crossman 3357, which are usually allowed in stock class but have the 12 gram under a grip panel. I never understood that part.

Good thought. I'll try to clarify what a bucket changer is. I like the description, "pass through the threads" as a good guideline for what is legal.

Originally Posted by WilD

The Crossman and AGA may be better left out of the disscussion though as they appear to be exceptions to several rules. Maybe I'm just off my rocker.

They may have been illegal in some events and legal in others. I don't think you are off your rocker!

Originally Posted by jincay

For some reason I never connected with that thought, so all those people running around claiming to be playing pure stock class with their phantoms are in fact.....not.

According to the autotrigger rule... nope! Keep in mind though that the autotrigger guideline is rarely used and is almost redundant with "one ball over the breech at rest". I'd like to know if anyone was ever excluded from a stock class event for having a marker with autotrigger. It is possible, but again... that is a minor, quirky rule never really enforced, certainly not in modern stock class.

Originally Posted by Yellow5

I understand the spirit of it, but when you start excluding some of the primordial models, you have to ask when could rules like these have ever been the norm.

Agreed. Well said. Some rules were probably made with specific markers in mind, and not really intended to exclude other designs.


Great comments. There were some things I overlooked. Thanks for the participation. On the other hand, I wish this discussion had not been moved from the Pump section. I think the discussion should be here, and the final guide could be posted in "New to the Sport".

[jhyan]

Originally Posted by Yellow5

Yeah, the autotrigger rule is kinda funny, considering that even the 007's had it. I understand the spirit of it, but when you start excluding some of the primordial models, you have to ask when could rules like these have ever been the norm. My suspicion is that the "rules" were never very well documented because there was not much other choice than to play with guns that met the above description (or close to it). Semis, CA, and other "modern" features wouldn't have been explicitly excluded because they weren't commonly available anyway.

It seems to my, in my limited exposure to the history of the sport (took a long long break) that the whole term stock class (and therefore the rules of stock class) came from a time when playing this way had already become outside the norm. Back in '88 we didn't play stock class... we played paintball. I think it only became known as stock class when the majority were playing semi-ball.

[rathbaster]

I always find it odd that discussions about stock class paintball always start with something about the style of play and then devolve into a long list of allowed and not allowed equipment.

If instead of:

-A style of play in which players compete using fundamental skills, such as movement, team tactics, and purposeful aiming, rather than rate of fire to win the match.

We say:

A limitation on equipment used in play which:
-restricts the potential rate of fire
-restricts the amount of paint carried on gun
-restricts the amount of air carried on gun

I think we would be more honest.

The basic 'style' description you use neglects the fact that ANY good player is going to be using fundamental skills (Movement-Angles-Teamwork) regardless his or her technology.

-rath

[WilD]

Originally Posted by rathbaster

We say:

A limitation on equipment used in play which:
-restricts the potential rate of fire
-restricts the amount of paint carried on gun
-restricts the amount of air carried on gun

I think we would be more honest.

I think that is the reality of what modern stock class paintball has become. I am not aware of any venue where these older stock class rules are actually enforced (not that there isn't one someplace). Most people who describe themselves as stock class adherents or stock players play against semi toters in open play. Most of the time if you play pump with limited paint and CO2 you will fit into this rather broad segment now. As has been discussed, realatively few markers actually adhere to all the stock class rules.

[mike31c]

Originally Posted by jincay

My other concern would be why only 68 paint? Is that to eliminate the use of the crosman 3357 or AGA62, if it is then I could understand using that to get rid of them but then what about the 62 sniper & the 62 bushmaster, heck I have a 62 splatoon pump gun that runs on HPA from the late 80's.

I actually don't recall any particular group calling for only .68 cal paint for stock class rules back in the day (or even now) except for fields that had field paint only rules.

Even when the IPPA was founded in 1988 (International Paintball Players Association) I don't think they specified what kind of paint you could or could not shoot.

I do remember seeing one of the first "Rule Book" (more like photocopied sheets) from the NPPL in '92 or '93 that wanted to limit paint to .68 cal only though.

So if you got em, and want to use them for stock class games, do so.

[MrJR]

Originally Posted by rathbaster

I always find it odd that discussions about stock class paintball always start with something about the style of play and then devolve into a long list of allowed and not allowed equipment.

If instead of:


We say:

A limitation on equipment used in play which:
-restricts the potential rate of fire
-restricts the amount of paint carried on gun
-restricts the amount of air carried on gun

I think we would be more honest.

The basic 'style' description you use neglects the fact that ANY good player is going to be using fundamental skills (Movement-Angles-Teamwork) regardless his or her technology.

-rath

I like the approach you suggest. Indeed, any good player, stock class or not, will use those skills. Stock class players just need to be more proficient, perhaps. However, I think "Long list of allowed and not allowed equipment" = "limitation on equipment used to play". Allowed = inside limits.

[mike31c]

If I had an E-Blade stuffed onto a PGP, would it be still considered "Stock Class"? It would still be one shot per trigger pull afterall.

[HurtCow]

Originally Posted by mike31c

If I had an E-Blade stuffed onto a PGP, would it be still considered "Stock Class"? It would still be one shot per trigger pull afterall.

Well you essentially do, though you have an aluminum D/F pgp. All the E- would do for the PGP is make the trigger pull much shorter and easier but you'd still have the same limitations.