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Old 03-08-2012, 05:00 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Thank you all for the great information. I decided to go with the pmi old style tracer since i was able to buy it w 12 gram changer, a dozen 12 grams, 10 round tubes, 100 round hopper with elbow and a scott mask all for $40.00. Does anyone know where to get one of those adapters so i can use cocker threaded barrels on it? I'll be sure to get a small outer diameter barrel so the pump handle will fit it. I'll probably pick up a phantom down the road at super game in Oregon since my team mates tell me Mike from CCI will probably be there selling them.
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:32 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Old 03-08-2012, 09:30 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Phantoms beat tracers in every category except price.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:14 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Phantoms beat tracers in every category except price.
It is exactly that kind of thinking that keeps cci in business. And that's just fine by me. The trouble is that the above statement isn't entirely true, and oddly it has a bit of a close minded single line supremicy that makes the peanut butter nation what it is today. Here on MCB we tend to do a bit more thinking and analysis. We would need to bring in some numbers, figures, and general logic to quantify this.

I would submit firstly, if not as my primary argument at least for general consideration the old "bore drop vs breech drop debate". The Trracer is a bore drop, the phantom is a breech drop, and if you are lost on this point an image search looking at the shape of the bolts should provide some clues. That debate, arguing what was better, was never definitively solved. What can be said of bore drop is that it was developed as a solution to problems caused by higher rates of fire. I would argue that bore drop is a higher tech base, if not a very significant advantage relevant to this conversation.



Other tech innovations present in the old trracer (particularly later on in its development) were things like the anti-double cocking, a spring ball detent, the interrupted power tube, the forward pump stop ring on the barrel, and the pump handle sliding on the body instead of the barrel. Even eventual undercocking, the phantoms one primary hallmark, was integrated into the trracer.

I cant quantify this yet, but I suspect that the trracer valvetrain is superior to the phantom. I hope somebody here can get some numbers for me. I am interested in the internal diameter of the powertube on the trracer and the phantom, and the weights of the hammers on the trracer and on the phantom. If my suspicions are correct, the trracer powertube is of a higher diameter and the trracer hammer is lighter.

A note on the anti-double cocking. I read the empire trracer review here on this website, and was a tad irritated when the author discovered the anti-double cocking feature and thought it was new. I was also upset that the authors photos only compared trracer internals and phantom internals.

I am a pro trracer guy. I have owned 4 phantoms at different times and just haven't managed to like them. My 12'th trracer is on its way to me from the frigid wastes of Canada. I can step back and analyse this type of debate from a logical and unemotional angle. I am glad that phantoms have done so well, I am glad the new trracer is here. Both markers have made significant contributions to paintball. I can also admit when a particular marker is junk, and I have seen my share of junked trracers. But I'm not going to give in and say all trracers are junk because I have seen one that was trash, or just sit there and let a one liner go by that doesn't take some factors into account.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:51 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Tracer and Phantom are basically the same in operations, just like any other nelson valve marker. I like to say once you've shot one nelson valve you've shot them all. I've personally owned both and while I'll say the phantom is a bit nicer they are near identical in performance minus the phantom's barrel which is pretty freakin dead accurate.

You'll like the tracer your getting its not a bad marker.
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Old 03-09-2012, 02:20 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by shibyman View Post
I decided to go with the pmi old style tracer since i was able to buy it w 12 gram changer, a dozen 12 grams, 10 round tubes, 100 round hopper with elbow and a scott mask all for $40.00.
It doesn't get much better than that, great buy man. The Phantom is far more modular with out of the box parts but if you're happy with it as is or are handy then it doesn't matter much. If you can find a 45 frame or lonestar frame you can bottom line it if you go with a tank, if not any AR style grip should work if you're looking for something different. My primary pump for many years was a slightly modified Trracer. The biggest problem was finding a good barrel for it but the cocker thread mod fixes that perfectly. My Trracer is one of the few markers I will not sell.
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:37 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I have an ACI Hornet I prefer over my Phantom. If barrel options and replacement parts were plentiful, I would prefer the Hornet based on performance alone. That said, I do like my phantom.
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Old 06-02-2012, 01:04 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I have a love/hate thing with the Phantom. I'm just really annoyed with the tolerances from gun to gun. I've had 3 phantoms, and some parts just didn't work on some guns because they are measured a little differently.

They do shoot pretty good though. I'd honestly get a grey ghost over a Phantom, it beats it in every way from what I have seen.
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Old 06-02-2012, 06:48 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I have a love/hate thing with the Phantom...


They do shoot pretty good though. I'd honestly get a grey ghost over a Phantom, it beats it in every way from what I have seen.
Same here with the love hate thing with phantoms

I second the grey ghost comment. I found grey ghosts to be slightly better made while giving you the same feel.
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Old 06-03-2012, 12:38 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I would love to have a trracer with a stock feed body. Sad part is, I have the stock and almost all the tooling to do it, just missing the long boring bar I need. They just feel better and less breakable than phantoms. I like the valve system better, I think with work it can be the more efficient nelson layout. And its already side cocking, non of that silly under cocking business that messes up most of the pump stroke of the phantom.

If you want one cocker threaded you need to have the body done It may be difficult because cocker threads are longer, but the meat is there diameter wise.
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