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jellyghost 10-24-2012 09:07 PM

Still trying to understand pump guns...
This is the third generation of my question concerning the relative desirability of pump guns. Here is my confusion:
I lucked out on my first gun purchase. I bought it in May, and it was a rh feed open class phantom w/ rainman under-cocking, vertical air, l-stock, ghost site, freak bore, 45 grip, and 4 oz co2 tank. I was just entering the sport, and surprisingly my first purchase was a great purchase. Since then, I have owned around 8 guns including a WGP VF Tactical autococker and a couple more phantoms.
I prefer open class, and I keep looking at the highly reviewed CCM guns and converted autocockers. I will not have the opportunity to try one of these guns before purchase, so can someone explain why they are so good?
When I hold the WGP VF Tactical, it is extremely heavy compared to my phantom. What makes a converted autococker desirable? If I wanted to buy a converted autococker, what is the best base model to convert? The WGP tactical is so heavy that I have decided to sell it.

Mar 10-24-2012 09:11 PM


Originally Posted by jellyghost (Post 2514908)
What makes a converted autococker desirable? .

personal preference.

Can't play with a phantom myself: too light.... Muscle memory is a hell of a thing....

I shoot a lot of brass and CCM.... heavier: yes. But a CCM is light as hell compared to a WGP MECH.

superman 10-24-2012 09:41 PM

quality. not all the wgp bodies are straight, some of the holes were actually skewed. and alot of the aftermarket bodies were made from wgp bodies. ccm makes it all from scratch and does quality machining aswell as anno. plus everything lines up the way it should and feels smooth from the start. comes with all the stuff you want stock.

sniper97 10-24-2012 10:20 PM

Why CCM? Very nice pump stroke...very light, great trigger. They point great and just work. You can play any rec ball game with a CCM pump and not feel out gunned (at least most of the time)....even without touching the A/T.

Also, customer service is great and it is a quality product. 3 years ago I bought a CCM S6 and it has been my go to marker every since.

Post up where you live at, I am sure someone close by has a CCM marker.

RAZRBAKK 10-24-2012 10:30 PM

One reason a lot of people seem to flock to snipers or Sheridan based pumps for open class is because of their naturally smoother pump stroke. If you're going to blast through 500-1000 rounds in a day, you'd rather have a sniper.

Nelsons are great for stock class because it's one tube, and you're going to be shooting less, so having a stiffer or rougher pump stroke isn't as big of a deal. Nelsons are also ideal for 12 grams because of their inherent consistency and efficiency.

jellyghost 10-24-2012 11:58 PM

So the pump stroke is the main advantage. What would be a light setup for a converted autococker? Is there a certain autococker that is the lightest?

russc 10-25-2012 12:06 AM

ANS GX-5 is pretty much the best combination of light and cheap that you'll find without going to a halfblock.

Spider! 10-25-2012 10:29 AM

Right off the shelf and to the field, I don't see how you can beat a CCM.

You can build something that feels as crisp and smooth as a CCM, but it won't be as clean and uniform.

If you don't want either of those features in a sheridan style, you just have to figure out what level of "custom" you want to go through. For bolt-together, I think I would pick out a pump kit like Rainman's or tjd's and work back from there. For me, frames/triggers are very important. With a good pump stroke and a good frame, I can be happy with most setups.

At the bottom of the bodies, superbolts are very light and small, but may need re-threading in the breech. KPCS has done some neat round top milling on old cockers that would be nice to work with. That's the nice thing about the sheridan platform; it's easy to modify for pressure, gas type, materials, and layout. The real beauty of a nelson is the compact design which works great with CO2 directly, making the whole marker small. Once you start regulating a nelson, adding rams and fat HPA bottles, the actual valve type doesn't really matter anymore.

Grendel 10-25-2012 10:53 AM

Since you prefer open class and own and like a Phantom setup for Open Class why the desire to buy something else? If what you have fits your style and works well I see no particular need to jump over to a "Sniper". There is nothing wrong with a Phantom, one of the best Nelson based guns IMO.

That being CCM makes and supports a line of high quality paintguns. The biggest advantage to buying a CCM paintgun is the consistency and quality. Buy, take out of the box and put it to work without niggling disparate parts together to make one up from an Autococker or other non-purpose build source.

You can buy and/or put together a "Sniper" that will work just as well as one of the CCM markers [or any of the other purpose built markers]. Really not that hard and it can be done on the cheap if you buy smart and take the time to niggle things together. That is the problem though you have to collect up the parts you "think" will work and then get everything to work well together. Very doable and not particularly difficult but still something you have to be willing to do and why do it when you can spend the same or maybe a little more and let CCM do the work for you an you then can just take that out and actually play paintball with it.

thumper 10-25-2012 11:38 AM


Originally Posted by jellyghost (Post 2514908)
.. What makes a converted autococker desirable? If I wanted to buy a converted autococker, what is the best base model to convert?

I hear ya. I'm a middle weight fan myself. phantoms/most ccms are too light for my taste. full bodied wgps are a bit much. and that leaves a great many options in the middle.

used: free flow fulcrum, belsales evolutions, dye ul.
new: sanchez, empire snipers.

^ are all very nice middle weights to consider.

And while not the prettiest things to look at the 2k0-2k2 stock cocker bodies usually perform exceptionally well with a bit of bench time.

And there is something to be said for building your own. Once you start your build please consider the weight your hopper, tank and pump kit add to the mix. Less is more... to a point.

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