Is 12g CO2 Safer? - Page 2

Cunha · 10-08-2007, 11:34 PM

Me too.

The only risk you run with 12 grams is changing them when they are non empty and having them boost around for a bit.

splattttttt · 10-09-2007, 08:00 AM

Main reason for me switching to SC was the fear of a bulk air device explosion. And the fact that I like for my children to enjoy the game also.
Listen, this happens way too often as far as I'm concerned, and I just want to minimize my chances.
I still use bulk air from time to time in the winter, but my Illusion is capable of running on 12g in the dead of winter.

incynr8 · 10-09-2007, 09:11 AM

12 grams are more dangerous, especially in pistols like the old PT extreme. I saw a kid take a nearly full 12gram to the eye in NY state from one of those. There is also generally, regardless of marker, more of a change of frost bit if dumping a cart, or slamming someone with a 6 pack chuck, and the uber uncommon sheridan 'mortaring'.

With proper procedure, regardless of air system, all of them can be very safe.

WilD · 10-09-2007, 05:36 PM

I think the risk of injury to myself personally is smallest using 12 grams. I no longer own a lever changer so I don't have rockets. I will add here that a 12 gram rocket is far less dangerous than say, a 7oz rocket due to the lower mass/energy anyway. So, using 12 grams there is virtually no possibility of serious injury or death.

Bulk CO2 tanks are also fairly safe if a little care is taken. I have over presureized them and blown a burst disk, but they are relatively safe. I'd say these represent a small risk of injury or death.

High pressure air is starting to really freak me out. There are to many variables outside my control to worry about. To many ways for oil to enter the system, to much pressure, to much oxygen. This I feel does represent a hazard to life an limb. If Nitrogen fills were avaialble they would seem safer to me as they eliminate the oxygen/ignition problem. I own a high pressure air system but have not used it in a while. However, this danger is really only significant when a bottle is being filled, so I guess I have no problem using it as long as I don't need to stand next to the fillstation while bottles are being filled.

incynr8 · 10-09-2007, 05:45 PM

the kid I saw get hit in the eye with a 12 gram rocket was a fairly bad injury (because it was the eye area), although I agree dying was unlikely.

Where we see issues compounded I believe, with regards to co2 and HPA tanks especially, is air travel and Hydrotesting.

Gotta pull the reg. Oh I need a rehydro, gotta pull the reg. Then they get put back in while some smooth bottle is usually jammed under some armpit of between legs as a bottle vice and that 'really' big adjustable laying out back in the shed. Locktite? maybe, but if so too much? Whats torque?

And it's not just home users, as seen the Cali incident and the subsequent NPS lawsuit (where a tank reg, possibly badly installed initially, was reinstalled badly for certain this time, and unscrewed.

Bulk tanks. I saw a 20 pound take a walk/slide, from the old (hold it upside down!) and fill up days.
You sure as hell didn't want to get hit by that nor the liquid exhaust.

I totally agree Nitrogen is the safest way for fiber tanks, but it still needs the damn reg screwed in right.

Tallen702 · 10-09-2007, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by incynr8

Where we see issues compounded I believe, with regards to co2 and HPA tanks especially, is air travel and Hydrotesting.

Gotta pull the reg. Oh I need a rehydro, gotta pull the reg. Then they get put back in while some smooth bottle is usually jammed under some armpit of between legs as a bottle vice and that 'really' big adjustable laying out back in the shed. Locktite? maybe, but if so too much? Whats torque?

I totally agree Nitrogen is the safest way for fiber tanks, but it still needs the damn reg screwed in right.

That's why I overnight my bottle to the hotel I'm staying at when I have to play somewhere other than locally and I'm flying.

It'd be nice if someone in the paintball community could work together with the TSA to create a device that could be certified by the TSA to prove the bottle was empty and kept the pin-valve open for checked bags. That way you wouldn't have to un-screw the reg to take the bottle with you.

The thing that makes me feel safer with HPA tanks in general vs CO2 tanks is that people at fields and shops pay more attention to the hydrostatic testing dates on HPA bottles. This means there's a far greater chance of these bottles being tested regularly to ensure that they are in good shape.

Ruckus Fox · 10-10-2007, 11:12 PM

And let's not forget that in most situations the 12-gram is kept out of human hands. It's usually in a bucket changer, or a 12-gram sheridan valve tube, or somewhere else that's hard to get your little fingers into.

I think you're safe as long as you don't do anything stupid...if you've ever pierced a fresh 12-gram, then let it drop on the ground, you'll notice that it barely has enough momentum to move around. So shooting out and hitting someone is kind of unlikely. The most damage I can see is just the freezer burn that comes with all CO2.

--Ruckus

splattttttt · 10-10-2007, 11:33 PM

Oh, I've seen a few 12g's take fligth here and there.
But like you said... I could easily hurt my self more brushing my teeth, then from a hit off of a loose 12vee

Cunha · 10-11-2007, 02:54 AM

Yep. Worste thing that could happen is a chipped tooth if you got really unlucky, maybe hurt your eye, again if you got very unlucky. But you should have a mask on so in all cases on the field 12 grams are pretty darned safe.

HP_Lovecraft · 10-11-2007, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallen702

It'd be nice if someone in the paintball community could work together with the TSA to create a device that could be certified by the TSA to prove the bottle was empty and kept the pin-valve open for checked bags. That way you wouldn't have to un-screw the reg to take the bottle with you.

The "reg must be removed" rule has nothing to do with pressure.

They want to make sure you are not hiding drugs or bombs in there, since it would be extremely hard to detect.

Before that rule, they were happy as long as you had a pin-depressor to hold the valve open, or a gauge to prove it was empty.

SO I don't expect it to change any time soon, as long as we are at war.

nick

10-09-2007, 08:00 AM	#12 (permalink)
splattttttt MCB Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Bean Town, U.S.A.	Main reason for me switching to SC was the fear of a bulk air device explosion. And the fact that I like for my children to enjoy the game also. Listen, this happens way too often as far as I'm concerned, and I just want to minimize my chances. I still use bulk air from time to time in the winter, but my Illusion is capable of running on 12g in the dead of winter. __________________ My Feed Back and album Norman Vincent Peale: "Believe that you are defeated, believe it long enough, and it is likely to become a fact. We tend to get what we expect." Don't let the so called Global Elite stick you with a chip. FIGHT FOR FREEDOM Carpe Diem, and smile a little Whish your Dog was smarter???

10-09-2007, 09:11 AM	#13 (permalink)
incynr8 .:\|Purification Admin\|:. Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: PA	12 grams are more dangerous, especially in pistols like the old PT extreme. I saw a kid take a nearly full 12gram to the eye in NY state from one of those. There is also generally, regardless of marker, more of a change of frost bit if dumping a cart, or slamming someone with a 6 pack chuck, and the uber uncommon sheridan 'mortaring'. With proper procedure, regardless of air system, all of them can be very safe. __________________ Advertise on MCB That's two-ing thirteen while she's eleven-ing your five........ PPS4LIFE "If a man neglects to enforce his rights, he cannot complain if, after a while, the law follows his example."

10-09-2007, 05:36 PM	#14 (permalink)
WilD the MilD MOD Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: The Motor City	I think the risk of injury to myself personally is smallest using 12 grams. I no longer own a lever changer so I don't have rockets. I will add here that a 12 gram rocket is far less dangerous than say, a 7oz rocket due to the lower mass/energy anyway. So, using 12 grams there is virtually no possibility of serious injury or death. Bulk CO2 tanks are also fairly safe if a little care is taken. I have over presureized them and blown a burst disk, but they are relatively safe. I'd say these represent a small risk of injury or death. High pressure air is starting to really freak me out. There are to many variables outside my control to worry about. To many ways for oil to enter the system, to much pressure, to much oxygen. This I feel does represent a hazard to life an limb. If Nitrogen fills were avaialble they would seem safer to me as they eliminate the oxygen/ignition problem. I own a high pressure air system but have not used it in a while. However, this danger is really only significant when a bottle is being filled, so I guess I have no problem using it as long as I don't need to stand next to the fillstation while bottles are being filled. __________________ PGPOG #79 POG #1055 My Feedback

10-09-2007, 05:45 PM	#15 (permalink)
incynr8 .:\|Purification Admin\|:. Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: PA	the kid I saw get hit in the eye with a 12 gram rocket was a fairly bad injury (because it was the eye area), although I agree dying was unlikely. Where we see issues compounded I believe, with regards to co2 and HPA tanks especially, is air travel and Hydrotesting. Gotta pull the reg. Oh I need a rehydro, gotta pull the reg. Then they get put back in while some smooth bottle is usually jammed under some armpit of between legs as a bottle vice and that 'really' big adjustable laying out back in the shed. Locktite? maybe, but if so too much? Whats torque? And it's not just home users, as seen the Cali incident and the subsequent NPS lawsuit (where a tank reg, possibly badly installed initially, was reinstalled badly for certain this time, and unscrewed. Bulk tanks. I saw a 20 pound take a walk/slide, from the old (hold it upside down!) and fill up days. You sure as hell didn't want to get hit by that nor the liquid exhaust. I totally agree Nitrogen is the safest way for fiber tanks, but it still needs the damn reg screwed in right. __________________ Advertise on MCB That's two-ing thirteen while she's eleven-ing your five........ PPS4LIFE "If a man neglects to enforce his rights, he cannot complain if, after a while, the law follows his example."

10-10-2007, 11:12 PM	#17 (permalink)
Ruckus Fox Active Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Pierre, SD	And let's not forget that in most situations the 12-gram is kept out of human hands. It's usually in a bucket changer, or a 12-gram sheridan valve tube, or somewhere else that's hard to get your little fingers into. I think you're safe as long as you don't do anything stupid...if you've ever pierced a fresh 12-gram, then let it drop on the ground, you'll notice that it barely has enough momentum to move around. So shooting out and hitting someone is kind of unlikely. The most damage I can see is just the freezer burn that comes with all CO2. --Ruckus __________________ Feedback

10-08-2007, 11:34 PM	#11 (permalink)
Cunha MCB Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Monterey, CA	Me too. The only risk you run with 12 grams is changing them when they are non empty and having them boost around for a bit.

10-10-2007, 11:33 PM	#18 (permalink)
splattttttt MCB Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Bean Town, U.S.A.	Oh, I've seen a few 12g's take fligth here and there. But like you said... I could easily hurt my self more brushing my teeth, then from a hit off of a loose 12vee __________________ My Feed Back and album Norman Vincent Peale: "Believe that you are defeated, believe it long enough, and it is likely to become a fact. We tend to get what we expect." Don't let the so called Global Elite stick you with a chip. FIGHT FOR FREEDOM Carpe Diem, and smile a little Whish your Dog was smarter???

10-11-2007, 02:54 AM	#19 (permalink)
Cunha MCB Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Monterey, CA	Yep. Worste thing that could happen is a chipped tooth if you got really unlucky, maybe hurt your eye, again if you got very unlucky. But you should have a mask on so in all cases on the field 12 grams are pretty darned safe.

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