General

[dempsey626]

Originally Posted by Titus

I don't undercut MAP pricing

Originally Posted by Titus

$219 is the pre order price for you guys on this site

Price increase due to someone on here running and crying to tippmann 1000 pardons for trying to save you guys a buck

Hmmmm.....seems like you don't always follow MAP policies.

Originally Posted by Titus

In this county we have 3 stores, 1 brick, myself, and a popped up overnight airball field that will most likely be gone in a month. I'm not going to bash the brick store, I'm friends with me and they see me as no threat. I help out the churches with paint and co2, fix their markers, sell them masks since they are on a tight budget. I help out the local players who can't find parts, don't know what they have or how it works.

Maybe that airball field could survive if the local churches could host their games there. I'm sure the store could use the increased sales off of the undercutting deals you are making with churches. That store, most likely, works off of a budget as well and could use the help. You can still help out your local players with out hurting your local "scene". Just go to field and help them out there. Or when you have a problem that cannot be fixed at the field, meet the locals at the store and encourage the parts be bought from that store. I would think that stores attitude toward you might change if they see you bringing business in the door.

Unfortunately Titus, you are exactly the type of operation described by bgearing and Instien'spaintball. KEE, Dye and "supposedly" Tippmann is trying to target this type of operation out of the industry. There has been too many local stores and fields opening and closing even before the economy took a dump. Some companies in the industry have seen their mistake and are trying to correct it.

While it does suck you can't make your business work the way you want it to, you can still be a part of a solution and not part of the problem facing this industry.

(No hate intended by this post. I know it get touchy talking about business.)

Dan

[dempsey626]

Originally Posted by Drum

When the sport was first growing in our area in the early eighties, there was a guy, sorta like Titus, who went out and did the research on how and where to buy paintball gear.

Keeping in mind that the internet was years away and very few people, let alone retailers had ever even heard of paintball in those days.

So, our pal decided to "sell" his knowledge to the rest of us. He took our orders and tracked down what we wanted, often from the manufacturers themselves and sold it all to us for a mild mark up. He was upfront about making a few bucks and we appreciated his time and effort, so we were happy to pay him.

He would organize paintball events locally and then "cater" them himself, by selling all the gathered enthusiasts the latest gear out of the trunk of his car. Again, we were grateful for his enthusiasm and effort and some of us even bought stuff from him that we did not "need" just to keep him encouraged and funded.

Fast forward a few years, and this fellow had developed enough of a following and enjoyed himself enough that he took the plunge and started renting various small spaces to sell paintball products. His was the very first paintball business in our area. He worked hard and prospered.

Drum,

This is the way many business started "back in the day" for paintball. (Man, hate that saying....). However, that time has come and gone.

The scene has been replayed many many times over the country.

The flaw was that once you buddy got all the interest going and people playing, NPS and many others would start selling directly to his customers who had a vendors license. When his sales dropped, he would be forced to close up shop and the interest in paintball then drops off in that region. Before the economy crapped out, many of the manufactures and distributors were seeing a trend of more stores closing than new stores opening. Unfortunately, that trend has continued. They are simply trying to change that trend.

Dan

[WilD]

Originally Posted by HurtCow

So by WILD's definition, Amazon.com isn't a 'real' online store?

One of us needs to reread what I wrote, because I would never take that position.

[Titus]

Originally Posted by dempsey626

Hmmmm.....seems like you don't always follow MAP policies.

(No hate intended by this post. I know it get touchy talking about business.)

Dan

Dan,

Thank you for 1st writing no hate intended, same here. It's nice to see people make points without getting all pissy.

Past is the past, DIDN'T is the word you were looking for not don't. And you're right, I slipped up and changed that quickly. There was a special on that thread, I don't remember what as in $210 plus shipping or something like that. It was changed and that was that.

The airball field doesn't have a store, it's just that, a field. I've seen plenty of places like that pop up in this county and fail months later, just don't jump down my throat and make me sound like I'm going to eat my own words when it's happened again and again here. When a shop locally does open up I try and support it, but none do. This is a mostly industrial county, little to no woods to play in, shops with no where to play close quickly.

But to let you know, & since I've been thrown under the bus a few times in this thread, I'll go the extra mile here: I have talked with the local churches about hosting events like that. Education is important when talking to them and how never to say "gun". Half want it, other half don't. Then getting the parents to game up and allow their kids to play doesn't always work. Insurance is another topic I could wastefully type away about. However I won't. Long story short, answer was no. No hosting games, and nothing on church property. PERIOD.

Again, I just felt the tires crushing my rib cage as the bus drags me on, hurting the local scene? So I'm assuming your guilty of that to if you give a local player a tank oring so he doesn't have to pay the $1/2 the field charges? Or lend him a hopper to play with so he can save a few dollars and not rent one? Or even lend him a marker so he doesn't have to rent fore the day and pay for field paint only with the rental? Never done anything like that before?

I would think that stores attitude toward you might change if they see you bringing business in the door.

What attitude? Everything's positive over here. As polite and kind your message of

Just go to field and help them out there. Or when you have a problem that cannot be fixed at the field, meet the locals at the store and encourage the parts be bought from that store.

When was the last time you saw cocker 3 way hosing in a store or trigger shoes? I've done that for years and why do you think I opened a place? I got sick of repeating myself to certain shops (that are no longer in business mind you) to order those things. You're preaching to the quire here.

Again, no disrespect intended. I took a chance and spoke out. I got thrown under the bus, but you know what, the amount of personal emails, PMs and phone calls I've gotten supporting what I've said and how they will no longer be buying KEE products made that pain worth it.

[Buck]

I bought one of those Brass eagle / zleader masks that makes your head look like a bubble off Titus.

He has lots off cool stuff that nobody else carries anymore.



So about Kee purchasing JT sports.......

[The Inflicted]

Now that they own WGP's trade dress rights for the Sniper and Autococker, I wonder if KEE will file try to collect a licensing fee from CCM, or file a cease and desist against them if they refuse.

Owning the autococker line, KEE could also begin importing and distributing 'cocker clones (Or more likely, pumps made by the same) from whatever OEM made the Superbolt, Lightning, and Odyssey O3m. These former autococker clones then could be sold as genuine WGP products.

Wouldn't that be pervese?

[Buck]

That would suck if CCM got boned.

[DFSniper]

didnt WGP try that already?

[desertT1]

Originally Posted by The Inflicted

Now that they own WGP's trade dress rights for the Sniper and Autococker, I wonder if KEE will file try to collect a licensing fee from CCM, or file a cease and desist against them if they refuse.

Owning the autococker line, KEE could also begin importing and distributing 'cocker clones (Or more likely, pumps made by the same) from whatever OEM made the Superbolt, Lightning, and Odyssey O3m. These former autococker clones then could be sold as genuine WGP products.

Wouldn't that be pervese?

That C&D was addressed here in post 31.

As far as importing, that would suck. I made a Superbolt pump and the fitment was absolute crap. I never got the pneus, but believe now when people say they are crap. That would probably be a nice margin brand for a little while until the word got out that the build quality was garbage and stores stopped carrying WGP again.

[Drum]

Dan, that is exactly true... in fact, when the internet came along, the only way my friend was able to keep his brick and mortar open was to enlist low paid employees into his pull squeegee sweat shop (I have seen his squeegees in the hands of players all over the U.S.) and even that did not work for long.

Eventually, he got hired up by one of the big warehouse distributors of paintball equipment, moved to FLA and that was the last we heard of him, aside from seeing him occasionally at IAO and such events.

His store soldiered on for 6 months or so after he left, in the hands of a hopeful wannabe replacement who went from debt free to bankrupt in less than a year.

It sucks, but it is the nature of this beast we call commerce. The better, cheaper mousetrap always sets the pace.

For guys like Titus and anyone who wants to stay alive in the shadows of the big boys, the key is specializing in service or stocking the obsolete bits. Same as in every other industry.

And yeah, CCM is on the endangered species list in the end. Just like PPS and any other shop or manufacturer who tries to resist the offshore cheapness.

But the pendulum will swing back.... when the big guys go bust (and they always do) the little grassroots sources crop up just like weeds after you fell a tall tree. It is a true cycle of nature. If you don't like where you are in the cycle, just wait.

D