General

[druid]

Originally Posted by donncath

Saying a guy altering an SA 8 to shoot like a T8 would be dogmeat in court is like saying that the woman who sued McDonalds for her coffee being hot was in the right. There is a degree of common sense to this. I understand the absence of a safety relief valve is a concern, but I see anyone who could potentially get hurt/cause bad publicity from this
as already having done so (i.e. kids in a car shooting up people w pb guns, etc) They didnt need some momentary lapse in deterence for purchasing LE tools.

There is no common sense to the Law, nor is there common sense to how a judge rules. The woman who sued McDs won didn't she?

The point is this...and there's no way of getting around it...

The SA8 is not a paintball marker. It says "" in laser engraving on the side.

Modifying it to perform like a paintball marker won't hold water in court because no matter how good your intentions were, it's still not made for paintball. It doesn't lessen your liability enough to completely exonerate you in court. It means you realized AFTER THE FACT...tried to modify it...FAILED...and someone still got hurt.

All of you looking for ways to make it field legal do so in vain. At the end of the day...after all testimony has been given it's going to boil down to this:

1. Someone got hurt
2. Someone will pay for it.

Is all this really worth it? No.

How many people here would like me to bring an FN303 to the field? I mean..."for all intents and purposes" it's nothing more than a hopped up AutoMag. Were I to modify it to shoot less than 300 fps and someone got hurt...I'd STILL be liable for their injuries.

Leave this device to what it's intended for...police LL device or a personal LL self defense implement. It's not meant for paintball and nothing you can do or say otherwise will change that fact. You can't get around it no matter HOW you try or how 'good' your intentions are.

[Party]

As long as it consistently shoots a paintball at <300 fps you can call it a ****ing thermonuclear weapon for all I care.

[Posey]

Druid, I don't exactly see where being a prison guard makes you an expert on liability law, so how about you drop the high minded criticism? Just because you can string together a few non sequitur assumptions you've made based on some other liability cases you heard about and falsely applied to this situation does not make your opinion a valid legal one.

But really, can we stop beating this dead horse at least until the announcement from Tiberius on Monday?

[pump]

i got a question if you adjust the SA8 to 290fps will it shoot over 290fps in a way different from any other paintgun would shoot over 290fps after being set at 290fps?

[Lohman446]

Read Druid's point. The woman who sued McDonalds won. Because in McDonalds case a reasonable person should have expected the consequences of their action ("we kept the coffee hotter than industry standards so it would be warm when people got to where they were going") And yes, someone who modifies one *if* it results in injury are going to be up the creek.

"It said not for recreational use on the side"

"The seller sold it for defensive use only - and even packed it with the intended ammo - pepperballs"

"The manufacturer reiterated it was a weapon and could not be made safe for paintball. They even offered you credit on it"

I play paintball and am tempted to think I would think it was an unreasonable expectation to believe you could make it safe (of course I am also talking in the situation where someone is already hurt so it would have proven me right). What are twelve of your "peers" who might already think paintball is terrorist training and all firearms should only be in the hands of police going to think was reasonable?

For some reason some people seem to beleive that what our court and government does is right. Call me a touch cynical but I really don't see where you get the idea.

[pump]

but his point doesnt answer my question

[Lohman446]

Originally Posted by pump

but his point doesnt answer my question

The counterpoint to this is simple. It wouldn't matter if they were mechanically identical. If one was marketed and sold as a weapon not for recreational use that is what it would be considered.

Its a moot point though, the manufacturer has stated, directly:

"This product was produced and sold only for use as a less than lethal weapon. It is also important to note that while this weapon appears similar to our Tiberius 8 (aka. T8, Tac 8, Tag 8) paintball pistol, internally there are numerous differences which makes their use in painball dangerous",

"This means the SA-8 is missing key safety components designed for the sport of paintball",

"Player’s attempting to refinish or rework an SA-8 for use in the sport of paintball are putting themselves and other player’s at risk."

We *know* that even at 290FPS there is some small inherent risk in paintball. It seems we beleive that risk goes up substantially above 300FPS (we might be wrong on that, like OMG, its shooting 301). However, in a stupidly litigous society one should exercise a degree of caution higher than using a LL weapon in a game.

[alpha434]

Well. That's the end of all custom guns, btw.

Blocks of aluminum were not intended for recreational use, you know.

I think tippmann should should release a memo saying that Tac8s are not safe for paintball.

[MondoMor]

Originally Posted by pump

i got a question if you adjust the SA8 to 290fps will it shoot over 290fps in a way different from any other paintgun would shoot over 290fps after being set at 290fps?

The SA-8 may be a little worse (but not much worse than a mis-adjusted T8/T9). UV Halo had a very good post addressing your point several pages back. Punkworks may be doing some testing on this soon.

I really hope this doesn't have a chilling effect on custom gun work. How many of those are "approved" paintball markers?

[alpha434]

Originally Posted by MondoMor

The SA-8 may be a little worse (but not much worse than a mis-adjusted T8/T9). UV Halo had a very good post addressing your point several pages back. Punkworks may be doing some testing on this soon.

I really hope this doesn't have a chilling effect on custom gun work. How many of those are "approved" paintball markers?

It definitely could... It's not a big leap to for a field owner to say "hey! This gun isn't allowed because it wasn't made by a professional manufacturer protected by liability insurance for the specific purpose to fire paintballs."

From there, modified guns. One-off guns. Barrels. Maybe someone will standardize what we wear. Back to those frakin one-piece coveralls.

It's a can of worms. And I sincerely hope that Tiberius is considerate and empathetic of the bigger situation. Even if we can't use our orange guns.

And for me, it was never a money issue. I wanted an orange T8 because I'd always wanted to stuff a pistol into an NES zapper.