General

[TiberiusArms]

First I would like to thank the many members that supported our efforts to help player's who may have purchased an SA-8. Those who really know us realize that our motive on this is not profit, it is safety. Thanks as well to all of you have have contacted us to return these products, the efforts to promote safe play are commendable and the spirit that help further our sport.

Second, it was not my intention to post the safety warning and walk away as though that would be the end of it. As one of the members who called the office noted I was out of the office, actually on vacation with my family at Disney World. The fact is I was notified of this issue several hours before getting on a plane. I contacted Pepperball to make sure they knew who their $99 price was attracting, paintball players, not those interested in a less lethal launcher. Since they weren't acting on the matter I pulled time from my family to try and help a situation that was obviously snowballing fast.

Third, Tiberius Arms did not sell these products to any retail customer, Pepperball did, so we aren't trying to cover any liability issues we are trying to address a legitimate safety concern.

I will be honest, I have not read through all of the posts so I apologize if I don't address every question posed but I will do my best to cover the major/recurring issues that have been raised.

First, the SA-8’s are not paintball markers, they are Pepperball launchers, and despite what many are posting there is a big difference. While paintball markers without overpressure relief valves may exist they do not operate in the same manner as our markers. Most lack regulators all together and are therefore designed to operate using CO2 full pressure, our system is not. Most markers featuring a regulator are designed with either a relief valve, or a failure point (that is to say an o-ring/solenoid gasket, etc. that is designed to give out before over pressurization becomes a safety issue), the SA8 lacks this feature. It is important to note that many SA8's may be able to be adjusted to below 300fps, however in the event of a regulator o-ring failure they lack the ability to vent and maintain a velocity that is safe for paintball. {Note: Many have sited the Automag which is a decent example, most didn't realize the have a pressure relief (probably because they didn't want it tampered with). As many who have used an Automag with CO2, or turn the velocity way up can attest they begin leaking out of the back of the regulator, the SA8 does not.} I am not going to debate every form of every marker ever made, even if other markers were/are capable of this failure it does not mean we believe it is safe and most importantly they don't have our name on them.

Second, could we try to manufacture a relief assembly as a drop in replacement, yes, do we feel that is a prudent course of action, no, and here is why. First, the SA-8 Pepperball launchers are etched “Not for recreational use” and were colored in blue and orange (known training and less lethal color choices of the police and military) for a reason. If we make exceptions to this because paintballers thought they found a deal that was too good to be true (and was), we would be doing all of the agencies who use our less lethal equipment a disservice. Additionally we would be telling fields that saw the “Not for recreational use” warning to ignore it, a very dangerous precedent to set. We would also further the incorrect assumption that less lethal weapons can be safely used for paintball. Many are right about the fact that we could try to make this for very little and sell it for a lot to those who are stuck with a purchase that isn’t what they thought it was...this should show our motive is not profit. Despite many peoples assumptions we didn't over extend ourselves by selling to Pepperball, they have chosen to sell these products at a huge loss, which is there right.

Likewise our effort isn’t to reward paintball player’s who purchased SA-8’s, as it has become clear to me that most knew that it was not be a wise decision. We are not demanding anyone return their SA-8, they are a wonderful product for home defense or law enforcement applications. What we are doing is making sure that players who go out to participate in a fun day of play at their local field aren’t subject to unnecessary risk as a result of another player’s careless “good deal”. So many have asked if we are going to "tell fields about these"? Yes, we have a professional and ethical obligation to do so to protect players and field owners. We make no apologies about this point and are amazed the risks people are willing to take to I have experienced a lot of “too good to be true(s)” in my time and can’t remember one where I was offered the chance to get out of that bad decision with nearly as much as we have tried to offer paintball player’s who purchased an SA-8.

As a result of speaking with many SA8 purchasers, reading these forums, and attempting to provide as many opt outs as possible we have decided to offer a $50 gift certificate for those wishing to return only the SA8 launcher. As most have noted the magazines alone are worth $100, so this provides a potentially better fit for many.

Gift Certificates are redeemable directly through Tiberius Arms (all products priced at MAP). I will be posting a complete list of products/prices shortly.

I respect that not everyone will agree with our efforts, or believe our motives but as a company we are really trying to do an honorable thing.

UPDATE:
We are allowing SA8 launchers that have been stripped and/or painted to be returned. SA8 launchers that have been modified will be evaluated on a case by case basis. So long as the modified units are complete (not stripped of parts, intentionally/excessively damaged) I do not foresee any problem with them being returned.

We have received a lot of requests for return information so here goes:

1. Go to http://service.tiberiusarms.com
2. Click "Register new account"
3. Click "New Ticket"
3. Enter the information requested. Note: the marker type selected does not matter
4. Please type "SA8 Return" in the problem description section
5. Credit card information only needs to be entered if you are redeeming your gift certificate immediately for an item(s) that exceed the value of your gift certificate. Note: Please be sure to account for a nominal shipping charge (we charge exact shipping, no handling fees, etc. most orders cost between $5-$8 to ship).

Shipping Address:
Tiberius Arms
2717 Ferguson Rd
Fort Wayne, IN 46809

Upon receipt we will contact you by phone and/or email to confirm receipt.

[MondoMor]

Here's Eric's contact info from his earlier thread:

Eric Bratten
VP Sales & Marketing
Tiberius Arms
260.478.2500 ext. 235
260.572.2210 fax
Eric@tiberiusarms.com
Tiberius Arms

[TiberiusArms]

We are allowing SA8 launchers that have been stripped and/or painted to be returned. SA8 launchers that have been modified will be evaluated on a case by case basis. So long as the modified units are complete (not stripped of parts, intentionally/excessively damaged) I do not foresee any problem with them being returned.

We have received a lot of requests for return information so here goes:

1. Go to Tiberius Arms Service System
2. Click "Register new account"
3. Click "New Ticket"
3. Enter the information requested. Note: the marker type selected does not matter
4. Please type "SA8 Return" in the problem description section
5. Credit card information only needs to be entered if you are redeeming your gift certificate immediately for an item(s) that exceed the value of your gift certificate. Note: Please be sure to account for a nominal shipping charge (we charge exact shipping, no handling fees, etc. most orders cost between $5-$8 to ship).

Shipping Address:
Tiberius Arms
2717 Ferguson Rd
Fort Wayne, IN 46809

Upon receipt we will contact you by phone and/or email to confirm receipt.

[TiberiusArms]

Guys, we hate to see this going this way as well. Like everything in life we will never get 100% of people to agree, hopefully as this settles and everyone reflects cool heads will prevail.

The best reason for my post is that I continued to work towards as many possible solutions to this issue as possible. I have found yet another and hopefully it will help matters.

As most noted we stopped producing the original T8 some time ago and sold our last inventory back in October. Originally when I searched our "graveyard" to see how many T8's we would be able to build (one of our original solutions was to try and switch components to convert SA-8's) the major problem was we didn't have any T8 style end caps or T8 bodies. When I revisited the issue today I discovered T8 bodies and end caps from a special edition pistol we tried to make. These bodies have a black nickel plating on them that didn't turn out well (cosmetic issues only, surface scratches, color inconsistency, etc.). So, we have yet another option available.

Return the SA-8 (launcher only --keep the mags) plus $50 and receive a genuine T8 paintball pistol (blemished black nickel color...picture to follow asap). We have to purchase/machine several additional components that we do not have but need in order to convert SA-8's and hope to have them completed in the next few days. We can build a maximum of 122 of these, and that is if everything goes perfect. We are contacting all of those who have completed service tickets and have returns on the way, and those who's SA-8's have already arrived as we feel obligated to give them first chance at these. When they are gone that's it, it's all we have.

Again I appreciate the support of those who appreciate our efforts. While we would never expect to please everyone we are doing our best to create different solutions to responsibly assist as many as possible.

Note: It is very difficult to get photo's of this finish, it is black mirrored nickel so it is very reflective. In the one image you can see where there is a multicolor spot. I could not get a photo that properly illustrated the small surface scratches. The bodies vary in condition.

[WingMan56]

So if we send in our SA-8 and you guys run out of these your going to send back our SA-8's or is it a gamble send in the SA-8 hope for a T8 maybe get a 50.00 gift card...I want to send mine in for a T8 but I have reservations. I either want my SA-8 or the T-8 can we get a confirmation or something.

[Schmitti]

If you will notice, this thread has been cleaned up.. Eric's posts were getting lost amongst all the "garbage".

This thread is only for official posts from Tib Arms and any questions directed to Tib. Arms about this deal to turn in your SA-8's. Any other posts will be deleted. Use the other thread for your speculation, arm chair lawyering, etc. That thread will still be watched so keep it civil.

E

[TiberiusArms]

We are not confiscating SA-8's, in the event we run out of blemished/refurb T8's we will gladly return the SA-8 if none of the other offers are suitable.

That said, I am doing my best to keep up with the number of service tickets created that are requesting this option. Accordingly, once a service ticket is created the products must be shipped out to us within 48 hours. Note: returns don't have to arrive to us within 48 hours (we are factoring appropriate shipping times) but need to be processed promptly so we can effectively serve as many people as possible wishing to participate in this program.

I will try to provide updated rough estimates on the number still available as returns arrive. As of this morning we still have this option available.

[Serafin]

Can I just send in two SA-8's for one real T8? Since it would be sending in one for the T8 deal and the other for the $50 gift card?

[MondoMor]

Just got an email based about the ticket I submitted last night.

...
This is to notify you that a blemished/refurb T8 marker has been reserved for you based on the position of your service ticket. In order to keep an accurate count of the number available, and to assist as many people wanting to take advantage of this offer as possible that you ship your return back to us promptly (within 48 hours). Please note that these returns do not have to arrive to us within 48 hours so no need for expensive express shipping, as we are factoring appropriate time for the items to arrive based on your location. However we need a way to cancelling service tickets that are created and not acted on...

Emphasis mine.

So get your ticket in and don't dilly-dally a long time before you ship.


I'm kind of excited to see the result.

[TiberiusArms]

Yes, 2 SA-8 launchers would equal 1 blem/refurb T8.