Jarden Corporation (Coleman, Mr. Coffee) to Buy K2 - Page 3

podup365.com · 04-26-2007, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drum

...there are paintballers who do not believe that any paintball company should sue any other for patent infringment.

In a perfect world utopia, I might subscribe to this flawed theory. When paintball was just getting started in the mid to late 80's, it was a lot closer to that utopia than is is now or has been in years.

Many of the "armchair lawyers" on the "Interwebs" just have not done the research to discover the difference between the legal actions of WGP and the frivolous legal claims of Smart Parts lawsuits. Instead they make rash decisions based upon their emotions because some paintball company they favored closed it's doors due to selling an inferior product, then blamed it on a cease and desist order from WGP/K2.

If a paintball player was not involved in the sport of paintball in Southern California during the 80's then they really shouldn't be making frivolous claims or judgments upon Bud Orr's contributions to the sport. Simply having emotional feelings towards another or deciding to not like that person without seeking out the facts, is not enough to make someone a "bane of the paintball industry". It simply means that the person making the claim is opinionated and has the ability to spread hearsay in an Internet forum.

Surge-NS · 04-26-2007, 01:10 PM

I wonder how hard it would be to mate a sniper with a blender? Cockerita? Or a Coleman air mattress with an electric air pump. Armor on! You'll never get me with my Mr. Instabunker!

Drum · 04-26-2007, 02:37 PM

Podup, the fact that you imagine there to be some difference between Smart Parts efforts and WGP's indicates to me that you have not read ANY of the filings of the parties. As it happens, I have read nearly all of it and I can tell you (from my armchair) that the publicly condemned lawsuits of Smart Parts and the efforts of WGP to defend patents were basically identical. If anything, the Smart Parts suits had more arguably supportable claims than the WGP suits did. It seems interesting that Bud's PR was better (or perhaps less bad) than was Smart Parts such that some of those who were so anti-smart parts gave WGP hardly a notice when they followed suit.

Also, your suggestion that the only people who could ever speak to Bud's claims to paintball innovation and achievement were those that played in Southern California during the 80's (could that include you?) seems contrary to the idea that Bud changed or improved the sport.

If noone outside of S. Ca. could have any knowledge of Bud, then how much of an impact could he and his copycating have had?

Seems kinda silly.

D.

BlindeSeher · 04-26-2007, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by podup365.com

Shiny new electronic markers would have never hit the market without the history of the sport that we have now.

Pardon me for questioning that development as a positive. I hear a lot of people talk about growing the industry and growing the sport, but why is that necessarily a good thing? I know, I know, in Amerika, we believe that bigger is better and anything that doesn't generate more wealth is a failure.

But I just don't see why it's a categorical imperative to GROW GROW GROW! Maybe my conservatism here has to do with my upbringing as a woodsball player, in which case it's just a cultural difference. Also, I don't much care for California.

Azzy · 04-26-2007, 04:24 PM

Nothing is wrong wit a growth in technology. That growth has brought in millions for R&D, which has led us to some cool things int eh sport. Think of the mask you would be wearing or the loaders you would still be using if the growth had not been there.

Walking_Target · 04-26-2007, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane-O

Shane-O "The Anti-Drum"

you're now my new best friend

and in addition, Bud Orr went after legitimate patent infringements, with all the fockers being made and taking cash away from his then-growing business.

Smart Parts sues anything that even looks as if it might come close to an infringement. not because they will necissarily follow through on the legal action, but because by threatening a lawsuit, they force smaller companies out of competition by forcing them to discontinue new products.

That is the reason they are going after the Invert Mini (can't remember the name of the parent company now...)

they're going after the mini because it is in direct competition with the SP Epiphany(sp?) and other similar product lines, even though it does not actually infringe on the patent.

Shane-O · 04-26-2007, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walking_Target

you're now my new best friend

and in addition, Bud Orr went after legitimate patent infringements, with all the fockers being made and taking cash away from his then-growing business.

Smart Parts sues anything that even looks as if it might come close to an infringement. not because they will necissarily follow through on the legal action, but because by threatening a lawsuit, they force smaller companies out of competition by forcing them to discontinue new products.

That is the reason they are going after the Invert Mini (can't remember the name of the parent company now...)

they're going after the mini because it is in direct competition with the SP Epiphany(sp?) and other similar product lines, even though it does not actually infringe on the patent.

IIRC, WGP suits involved "Trade Dress". Which in this case meant that if it had a moving backblock, it was a copy. I think that he waited too long to apply for a patent for the whole gun, since neither Budd, nor Glen invented the pneumatic system for markers IMO. Maybe Drum can comment since he's read them all. Havent really heard the actual claims to patent infringment, in the latest suit, SP vs Kee, so it is hard to figure out how everything is going at the moment. I beleive the suit about the Revolver barrel, is for barrel porting, not inserts. The interesting thing (to me at least) is I thought there were agreements in place for the products in the suit. Maybe after the merger, the agreements went by the wayside, dunno for sure.

Drum · 04-26-2007, 08:16 PM

Actually, WGP tried to expand the trade dress protections to cover a movable back block arguing that trade dress included the rough shape of the gun (presumably including the back block) and ownership of the words "cocker" and "autococker".

The last I read, the Court determined in pre-trial motions that there was a potentially valid argument for claim to the words but that the back block was a functional aspect not covered by trade dress protections.

I am not aware that this case (aimed at others who would dare to steal the back block and make their own "autococker" or "cocker" bodies) has progressed to a decision or a settlement or not.

D.

Brewtt · 04-26-2007, 08:21 PM

I'm agree with Drum. Bud Orr and his son were and probably always will be jackasses. That is all.

Shane-O · 04-26-2007, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brewtt

I'm agree with Drum. Bud Orr and his son were and probably always will be jackasses. That is all.

Why? Did he stick his tongue out at you and blow a rasberry?.....j/k. Is your feeling about them, for the whole Palmer/WGP thing? Or was there another reason, just curious................

And for the record, I am now and will always be a Jackass, just ask anyone whos hung out with me......................

04-26-2007, 01:10 PM	#22 (permalink)
Surge-NS Devious Penguin Mod Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Brookfield, IL	I wonder how hard it would be to mate a sniper with a blender? Cockerita? Or a Coleman air mattress with an electric air pump. Armor on! You'll never get me with my Mr. Instabunker! __________________ Now that's special. One case; One kill. What do you want, a cookie? [QFD] Do not, I repeat, DO NOT read any handgun magazines or any magazines related to guns. These rags thrive on making people feel outgunned and underarmed and if you read any of them, before long you will be trying to figure out how to conceal a .44 magnum under a t-shirt and shorts without ramming it up your ***. [/QFD] I am Scourge! Mod: Ask The Experts, Events, PBC Reviews, The Dead Zone

04-26-2007, 04:24 PM	#25 (permalink)
Azzy Mod-O-Rator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Finleyville, PA	Nothing is wrong wit a growth in technology. That growth has brought in millions for R&D, which has led us to some cool things int eh sport. Think of the mask you would be wearing or the loaders you would still be using if the growth had not been there. __________________ Bryan "Azzy" Spiegel Riverside Renegade Paintball / C.C. S.V.S. Plankowner - LPPC#6 "It is my right to be uncommon—if I can. I seek opportunity—not security. I do not wish to be a kept citizen, humbled and dulled by having the state look after me. I want to take the calculated risk; to dream and to build, to fail and to succeed. I refuse to barter incentive for a dole. I prefer the challenges of life to the guaranteed existence; the thrill of fulfillment to the stale calm of utopia. I will not trade freedom for beneficence nor my dignity for a handout. I will never cower before any master nor bend to any threat. It is my heritage to stand erect, proud and unafraid; to think and act for myself, enjoy the benefit of my creations and to face the world boldly and say, “This I have done.” - Dean Alfange

04-26-2007, 08:21 PM	#29 (permalink)
Brewtt CHEERS! Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Northern California	I'm agree with Drum. Bud Orr and his son were and probably always will be jackasses. That is all. __________________ Dabbling in the recreational paintball arts since 1991.