Thunder Bay Police getting hard on paintball locally - Page 3

-=ArchAngel=- · 12-02-2011, 08:14 PM

Here is a link to some VERY useful information:
Airsoft and Canadian Law - Important Readme for New Folks (cleaned) - Airsoft Canada

Under the current Firearms Act, a replica firearm is defined as:

“(Criminal code sec. 84 (1)) "replica firearm" means any device that is designed or intended to exactly resemble, or to resemble with near precision, a firearm, and that itself is not a firearm, but does not include any such device that is designed or intended to exactly resemble, or to resemble with near precision, an antique firearm;” [quoted from that link]

There's a reason why some paintball guns resemble firearms but not too similar to them. Big paintball companies are aware of this and thus are careful not to model their markers too similar to real firearms. Not too long ago, Tippmann had problems getting their markers into Canada but that was resolved. There is also a reason why thousands of milsim type paintball guns are cleared and allowed across the border by the CBSA.

It really ticks me off that the field owner was told he could have been arrested under the Terrorism Act. Sounds to me like intimidation tactics to psychologically shock people into submission.

Mayvik · 12-02-2011, 08:28 PM

On the front page...

"Thunder Bay Police getting hard on..."

PaintballMaverick · 12-02-2011, 08:41 PM

Being the Original Poster's wholesaler for both paintball and airsoft, I can assure you that we're taking all the steps possible to assist in this.
Both companies that I am part-owner of legally import (and have for some time) both paintball and airsoft equipment based on Canadian Law. I personally have spent countless hours on the phone with both the RCMP and the CBSA to ensure that we are following all pertinent laws in Canada.
The question here becomes the interpretation of the Firearms Act specifically relating to replicas. The local Police department in conjunction with the Crown has interpreted it one way and is taking their information to the federal level to determine the legality of the paintball and airsoft equipment in question.

Interestingly, a paintball field/store was targeted, the OP's store was visited, but not the Wal Mart nor the Canadian Tire, both of which carry both Paintball and Airsoft equipment.

EgoPossum · 12-02-2011, 08:45 PM

What we have decided to do to make the officer happy right now is any marker that he deems "replica" (TM15, Bravo One, Omega, Delta, Sierra One) are staying on the shelf but the stocks and shrouds are being left in the boxes they come in
If we have to we will use extra shop barrels if the shrouds are part of the barrel
The owner and the officer had a chat tonight regarding this.

Funny thing is that they are not going after Walmart or Canadian Tire because they sell markers in other cities/provinces (paraphrased the officer there)
*sigh*

And thanks to everyone for the help......
It is giving us the needed focus that we need to work through this

Surestick · 12-02-2011, 11:29 PM

Meawhile the federal govt. is getting rid of the long-gun registry...

foughtwolf · 12-02-2011, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EgoPossum

What we have decided to do to make the officer happy right now is any marker that he deems "replica" (TM15, Bravo One, Omega, Delta, Sierra One) are staying on the shelf but the stocks and shrouds are being left in the boxes they come in
If we have to we will use extra shop barrels if the shrouds are part of the barrel
The owner and the officer had a chat tonight regarding this.

Funny thing is that they are not going after Walmart or Canadian Tire because they sell markers in other cities/provinces (paraphrased the officer there)
*sigh*

And thanks to everyone for the help......
It is giving us the needed focus that we need to work through this

This sounds like they are trying to take out paintball/airsoft only shops and fields?

SnowZone · 12-03-2011, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foughtwolf

This sounds like they are trying to take out paintball/airsoft only shops and fields?

No it's that the large chain retailers have MASSIVE legal departments and the funding to quash anything like this long before it becomes an issue.

Tek2974 · 12-03-2011, 12:16 AM

Rule 1 about talking to the police: DON'T
Rule 2 about talking to the police: refer to rule 1.

Anything you say CAN and WILL be used AGAINST you in court.
Get an attorney on retainer and let them handle it. Talking to misinformed/misguided police is the fastest way of getting your shop shut down. Being polite and courteous is different then being nice and slipping up on one word (850psi vs 850 fps) that gives them reason to shut you down. The police are not there to be your friend, they're there to do their job as dictated by the current gov't. Remember that.

Teek · 12-03-2011, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tek2974

Rule 1 about talking to the police: DON'T
Rule 2 about talking to the police: refer to rule 1.

Anything you say CAN and WILL be used AGAINST you in court.
Get an attorney on retainer and let them handle it. Talking to misinformed/misguided police is the fastest way of getting your shop shut down. Being polite and courteous is different then being nice and slipping up on one word (850psi vs 850 fps) that gives them reason to shut you down. The police are not there to be your friend, they're there to do their job as dictated by the current gov't. Remember that.

Woah, do you say this every time cops get mentioned? I think your suggestion would make things worse. It sounds like there is a misguided or bored officer who just needs a little education on the law he is trying to enforce. The situation sounds well in hand.

Tacticool · 12-03-2011, 02:14 AM

well being from Tbay i know that police can be kind of incompitant when it comes to issues like this

12-02-2011, 08:28 PM	#22 (permalink)
Mayvik Inch of Gold Join Date: May 2007 Location: Denver	On the front page... "Thunder Bay Police getting hard on..." __________________ My Feedback

12-02-2011, 08:41 PM	#23 (permalink)
PaintballMaverick Newbie Join Date: May 2009 Location: London, Ontario, CANADA	Being the Original Poster's wholesaler for both paintball and airsoft, I can assure you that we're taking all the steps possible to assist in this. Both companies that I am part-owner of legally import (and have for some time) both paintball and airsoft equipment based on Canadian Law. I personally have spent countless hours on the phone with both the RCMP and the CBSA to ensure that we are following all pertinent laws in Canada. The question here becomes the interpretation of the Firearms Act specifically relating to replicas. The local Police department in conjunction with the Crown has interpreted it one way and is taking their information to the federal level to determine the legality of the paintball and airsoft equipment in question. Interestingly, a paintball field/store was targeted, the OP's store was visited, but not the Wal Mart nor the Canadian Tire, both of which carry both Paintball and Airsoft equipment. __________________ The Northern Gunmen Scenario Team www.thenortherngunmen.com The Original World Champions, The Unknown Rebels (1983) The Wolf's Den!! www.thewolfsden.tv

12-02-2011, 08:45 PM	#24 (permalink)
EgoPossum Owner of Crazy Cats Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Thunder bay, Ontario, Canada	What we have decided to do to make the officer happy right now is any marker that he deems "replica" (TM15, Bravo One, Omega, Delta, Sierra One) are staying on the shelf but the stocks and shrouds are being left in the boxes they come in If we have to we will use extra shop barrels if the shrouds are part of the barrel The owner and the officer had a chat tonight regarding this. Funny thing is that they are not going after Walmart or Canadian Tire because they sell markers in other cities/provinces (paraphrased the officer there) sigh And thanks to everyone for the help...... It is giving us the needed focus that we need to work through this __________________ "I shoot pump because it hurts more feelings." -- ryantuomi (heard at Living Legends 2) "Not everybody understands English... but everyone understands stick" - Big Sexy Medic "Pumping is about as much a disadvantage for me as shifting is for a Nascar driver" - Ralanti (in an email between ryantuomi, ralanti and I about playing pump) Thunder Bay Pump Club Dementia Paintball MCB Feedback Last edited by EgoPossum; 12-02-2011 at 08:48 PM.

12-02-2011, 11:29 PM	#25 (permalink)
Surestick Seasoned Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada	Meawhile the federal govt. is getting rid of the long-gun registry... __________________ "Now is no time to be making new enemies" - Voltaire (When asked on his deathbed by a priest to renounce the devil and turn to God.)

12-03-2011, 12:16 AM	#28 (permalink)
Tek2974 Rocking the casbah Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Lehighton, PA	Rule 1 about talking to the police: DON'T Rule 2 about talking to the police: refer to rule 1. Anything you say CAN and WILL be used AGAINST you in court. Get an attorney on retainer and let them handle it. Talking to misinformed/misguided police is the fastest way of getting your shop shut down. Being polite and courteous is different then being nice and slipping up on one word (850psi vs 850 fps) that gives them reason to shut you down. The police are not there to be your friend, they're there to do their job as dictated by the current gov't. Remember that. __________________ MCB Feedback Lead me, follow me, or get out of my way. 10th Line Last edited by Tek2974; 12-03-2011 at 12:21 AM.

12-02-2011, 08:14 PM	#21 (permalink)
-=ArchAngel=- Post Whore Join Date: Oct 2009	Here is a link to some VERY useful information: Airsoft and Canadian Law - Important Readme for New Folks (cleaned) - Airsoft Canada Under the current Firearms Act, a replica firearm is defined as: “(Criminal code sec. 84 (1)) "replica firearm" means any device that is designed or intended to exactly resemble, or to resemble with near precision, a firearm, and that itself is not a firearm, but does not include any such device that is designed or intended to exactly resemble, or to resemble with near precision, an antique firearm;” [quoted from that link] There's a reason why some paintball guns resemble firearms but not too similar to them. Big paintball companies are aware of this and thus are careful not to model their markers too similar to real firearms. Not too long ago, Tippmann had problems getting their markers into Canada but that was resolved. There is also a reason why thousands of milsim type paintball guns are cleared and allowed across the border by the CBSA. It really ticks me off that the field owner was told he could have been arrested under the Terrorism Act. Sounds to me like intimidation tactics to psychologically shock people into submission.

12-03-2011, 02:14 AM	#30 (permalink)
Tacticool That retro guy, Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada	well being from Tbay i know that police can be kind of incompitant when it comes to issues like this