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Old 07-04-2012, 09:56 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Going beyond that, Dan Colby, who is well known from Air America, and can be directly attributed to the start of HPA in paintball, started GA, and ended up partnering his company with YSN Imports. YSN Imports is known as the leading importers of propane regulators for propane tanks with BBQ's. A bit over a year ago, around March or April of last year if I remember correctly, Dan found out that he was getting shafted by YSN Imports as he was supposed to make, as make X amount of money off of each reg sold. If I am correct in this, he owned the intellectual property of the regs, and in part of selling the property, he was to receive a royalty off of each one. Not sure exactly, but I saw something to this effect. He then figured out how much he was owed, and filed suit against YSN Imports. Immediately, the terminated him from GA, and had him escorted out of the GA building (Little more than a small shop, around the size of a six car garage), and would not let him grab anything on the way out. Here is a quote from him, from Facebook:

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"I started this many times over, but the only response that came to mind was 2 words, and it wasn’t Peace Out. This is a highly censored version of what really came to mind, but while in litigation, I took my attorney’s advice. I really wanted to clarify the accounting of events in regards to my “parting of the ways” with Guerrilla Air that was posted by Sruli (alias, Israel Schochet) on PB Nation under the post name of Screaming Eagle. Not quite the hearts and flowers interpretation they’d have you believe. In no way, was this a voluntary action on my part. As a matter of fact, I was served “termination papers” with YSN Imports Inc/Guerrilla Air owner Sam Newman in attendance and was escorted out by 2 police officers. I was denied any access to all of my personal belongings, among which are numerous proprietary documents and prototypes of product from Air America; which are in no way amongst the assets purchased by YSN Imports. Sounds fishy, huh? Since being served with the lawsuit that we filed against them on 03/09/11, there has been a barrage of what can only be construed as direct retaliation. It appears they are not taking the suit too well, you think?
All of you who know me, also know that I would not willingly walk away from what I have built, the sport I love, and the players I have worked so hard to serve all these years, and those of you who really know me, know that this is not the end, or the last you will see of me. The advancement of this industry and my availability to the players has always been my primary concern. Have faith my brothers, that this will all sort itself out in court. While they must feel that they have won this battle, we’ll see who wins the war.
Looking forward to seeing you all at Legends/NPPL Chicago and PSP Chicago."
You can find this exact same quote in several forums, and another little tidbit of info about this situation, from 68Caliber:

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About a week ago it was confirmed that Dan Colby, founder and former President of Guerrilla Air, was suing the company for $12,000,000.00 over alleged accounting irregularities that diminished his profit sharing in the company.

Colby was subsequently fired from the firm. The suit is scheduled to begin tomorrow (Tues. April 19).

Today we learned from anonymous sources close to the lawsuit that Colby’s personal belongings, intellectual property and other property relating to his 25+ year career in paintball have been removed from the Guerrilla Air facility by parties unknown.

Our sources report that among the items missing is Colby’s irreplaceable collection of historically important paintball gear, including one-of-a-kind paintball guns, loading systems, prototypes, (including unique items such as the first fiber-wrapped HPA tank ever made for paintball) as well as an enormous collection of personal mementos – including awards presented to Dan at many industry firsts – the first NPPL tournament, the first International Amateur Open, the opening of the first paintball field in Thailand, among others.

Reports also suggest that some of the property was destroyed or discarded – accidentally or otherwise – including personal keepsakes, such as grade school drawings by his son.

The loss of these items is a major blow to paintball’s history. It can only be hoped that whoever removed these items will preserve and maintain them for the future.

68Caliber shies away from speculation, but it is not a far stretch to suppose that the removal has something to do with the impending lawsuit and/or the on-going dispute.

Our sources state emphatically that the property Colby was storing on the site had no connection to Guerrilla Air or its business, but rather represented the personal items that Colby has been collecting for a quarter-century in the business. Mr. Colby is well known for displaying many of these items in his office – wherever he happens to be working.

No doubt the whereabouts and disposition of these items will find its way into the upcoming court case.

68Caliber has also been informed that it will soon be receiving photographs of the incident. We’ll be posting them as soon as they become available.
When I learned about this, just after GA announced it's tech center in Cali opening up, I decided that I wasn't as big of a fan of GA after that. And then to learn what they did to the rest of the GA people, still in Illinois, I became not only that much bigger of a fan of Ninja (Which I have been for a while, they are very impressive), but decided that they were the next Smart Parts, in my own dislike.

Then, just to add further insult, directly from Dan, on PbNation, on 10/17/2011:

Quote:
Guerrill Air Closed and FIRED Debbie, Mary, and Larry today at the Chicago office. Armed guards and some tool from Cali fired them in the parking lot, and then they were kept out of the building by the armed guards. Then all contents were removed to a remote location quickly. This staff was known for there customer srevice and they were the back bone to Guerrilla Air, this should be intresting to see how they roll now. ....
Guerrilla Air Closed the Chicago office
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Old 07-04-2012, 11:20 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by No Mercy Ever View Post
Going beyond that, Dan Colby, who is well known from Air America, and can be directly attributed to the start of HPA in paintball, started GA,
Actually, that credit goes to Tom Kaye and Airgun Designs.

http://history.paintballx3.com/index...=174&Itemid=58 See 1992 for reference points.

None of this has anything to do with Tiberius Arms buying out GA though (some irony there). Maybe if all this is to be rehashed again another thread should be created so this one may remain on topic?
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Old 07-04-2012, 11:45 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Actually, that credit goes to Tom Kaye and Airgun Designs.
but can he prove it with a patent?

sometimes i wish he could...
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Old 07-04-2012, 11:55 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Deuce I think that it's ok for it to stay here, I dont think much more is being added. No Mercy Ever, thanks a ton for that post and all the info. People like you are the reason I love MCB. I genuinely appreciate that. I was a "fan" you could say of GA before, now I'll never buy anything from them.
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Old 07-05-2012, 01:50 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
Actually, that credit goes to Tom Kaye and Airgun Designs.

Gear History 1981-2000 See 1992 for reference points.

None of this has anything to do with Tiberius Arms buying out GA though (some irony there). Maybe if all this is to be rehashed again another thread should be created so this one may remain on topic?
I said directly attributed. I didn't say that he started it, or was the first person to do it. I know that Tom Kaye is pretty much the originator of HPA for paintball. But look at the two companies listed, PMS/Nitroduck and Air America. Actually, I know that the Fred Schultz Signature Series specifically, and most likely at least one other, are based specifically off of the Automag valve.

I wouldn't have anything to do with GA for a while, but that was due to YSN Imports. Now, with Tiberius in charge, I am open again to them. Or at the very least, up to giving them another chance. But I have to admit from my own "experiments", Ninja has the most consistent reg out there, with no decay until you hit 1000 PSI in the bottle (Not sure about the SHP reg though).
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:25 PM   #26 (permalink)
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In my opinion, this acquisition is intended to primarily serve the Less-Lethal side of Tiberius Arms.

Historically, I've heard from several sources that the 13/3K regs included with their Tank in Stock product came from Ninja (I can't confirm because I've never owned one nor, have I asked Ray about this, and if it were true, he probably would not be able to affirm).

Presently, all of their less-lethal offerings (the FN303P sold under FN Herstehl, The T4) are designed to be operated off of CO2. If they wanted to get those customers over to compressed air (like the competing FN303 Rifle), they need to do one of two things: Form a 'teaming agreement' with Ninja (or another tank manufacturer) to provide the regs and support, or get their own tank production and support capability. If they buy their own capability, obviously they get more of the profit in the long run.

I hate to say it but, Less-Lethal customers drive Tiberius Arms. TA provides great customer support (troubleshooting, spares, etc) but, the entire paintball side of the business is riding in the back seat. This is why we rarely see new paintball products from them.
To further illustrate, when I found through several 20 shot, documented, chrono strings, that the original rifled barrel forces T9.1 users to adjust the reg outside of it's optimal adjustment range, and thereby decreasing FPS consistency, Tiberius Arms essentially said, 'the engineers have too many Less-Lethal products to work on for us to investigate this issue'.

Guerilla Air will keep their paintball business but, I bet you there will be no more Ninja regs included with Tiberius products. I also strongly suspect that this is in support of the development of a 'T4.1' which will probably see the light of day in the less-lethal industry first, and the paintball industry later. Regulator design knowledge may also help Tiberius improve the secondary regs built into their guns.

Finally, I've tried both Ninja and Guerilla air regs with my smoothbore T9.0, while shooting First Strike rounds. The Ninja system clearly improved the consistency of the T9.0 while using a LAPCO .690 smoothbore FS barrel. Punkworks testing has also showed the Ninja reg to be more consistent.
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Unfortunately all of you have played the one "speedball" game of paintball for so long you can't conceive of other ways to do this and hence any new ideas seem stupid.
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:36 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by uv_halo View Post
In my opinion, this acquisition is intended to primarily serve the Less-Lethal side of Tiberius Arms.

Historically, I've heard from several sources that the 13/3K regs included with their Tank in Stock product came from Ninja (I can't confirm because I've never owned one nor, have I asked Ray about this, and if it were true, he probably would not be able to affirm).

Presently, all of their less-lethal offerings (the FN303P sold under FN Herstehl, The T4) are designed to be operated off of CO2. If they wanted to get those customers over to compressed air (like the competing FN303 Rifle), they need to do one of two things: Form a 'teaming agreement' with Ninja (or another tank manufacturer) to provide the regs and support, or get their own tank production and support capability. If they buy their own capability, obviously they get more of the profit in the long run.

I hate to say it but, Less-Lethal customers drive Tiberius Arms. TA provides great customer support (troubleshooting, spares, etc) but, the entire paintball side of the business is riding in the back seat. This is why we rarely see new paintball products from them.
To further illustrate, when I found through several 20 shot, documented, chrono strings, that the original rifled barrel forces T9.1 users to adjust the reg outside of it's optimal adjustment range, and thereby decreasing FPS consistency, Tiberius Arms essentially said, 'the engineers have too many Less-Lethal products to work on for us to investigate this issue'.

Guerilla Air will keep their paintball business but, I bet you there will be no more Ninja regs included with Tiberius products. I also strongly suspect that this is in support of the development of a 'T4.1' which will probably see the light of day in the less-lethal industry first, and the paintball industry later. Regulator design knowledge may also help Tiberius improve the secondary regs built into their guns.

Finally, I've tried both Ninja and Guerilla air regs with my smoothbore T9.0, while shooting First Strike rounds. The Ninja system clearly improved the consistency of the T9.0 while using a LAPCO .690 smoothbore FS barrel. Punkworks testing has also showed the Ninja reg to be more consistent.
Guerilla air is not making me happy

That post has good evidence showing the recharge/shootdown on the myth, and that whole thread has some good info, even if it got ridiculos by the end. I have a myth reg though, and dont notice any issues with it. IMO that thread ended up as the "lets hate on GA without any reason or evidence because everyone else is doing it" thread, even if there were one or two people putting up valid test info and stuff.
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:52 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I also hope that Dan makes a return to paintball soon.
You know he will, you canít keep a good man down.
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Old 07-05-2012, 01:23 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Guerilla air is not making me happy

That post has good evidence showing the recharge/shootdown on the myth, and that whole thread has some good info, even if it got ridiculos by the end. I have a myth reg though, and dont notice any issues with it. IMO that thread ended up as the "lets hate on GA without any reason or evidence because everyone else is doing it" thread, even if there were one or two people putting up valid test info and stuff.
I'm not sure what you're saying there but, if you are alluding that I'm just 'hating on GA': I base my assertion entirely on my own experiences and, the rigorous testing conducted and documented (video even) by Punkworks.

The bottom line is that I'm only making an assertion for my appliction (low rate of fire, 1BPS or less) where, the ability to consistently return to the preset output pressure is if primary importance, and all documented testing backs this up.

Other markers may not be as sensitive as they will most likely have a more robust secondary regulator. Also, most other markers are fired at significantly faster ROFs than Tiberius Arms markers therefore, other factors (i.e. recharge rate) are more important.
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Originally Posted by Tom Kaye -in response to FS price critics
Unfortunately all of you have played the one "speedball" game of paintball for so long you can't conceive of other ways to do this and hence any new ideas seem stupid.
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Old 07-05-2012, 01:36 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I'm excited for this! I know Dan Colby and he is a great guy... I hope whatever he does next is a huge success for him... He definitely played a key role in adapting HPA into the sport... And I hope he gets what is due to him...

I have a lot of friends who have designed a LOT of stuff in paintball... But the fact is, when you work for a company designing stuff, you typically don't "own" it anymore... The company does... Now, any of his "personal" items that were not returned... That is just crap! But unfortunately, business relationships change... Personnel changes... Directions change... And unless you have things really buttoned up tight, those things can go south really quick! I think Dan is awesome, and if he comes to market with a product, I am definitely checking that thing out!

Now, one of my REALLY good friends, former boss, team sponsor, and current team mate, is Tyler Tiberius from Tiberius Arms... We have been buddies for a few years... He spends most of his time in Ft. Wayne, IN but his family has a house here in Utah... So, for a few months out of the year, he his local... And we hang out quite a bit... He is a really smart guy, and in my experience, treats people very fair... And, he really started Tiberius Arms because he loves to play paintball... And had an idea for the pistol we all know now as the TAC8...

The way they have grown Tiberius Arms has been very methodical and smart... They have a pretty big distribution network and I think combining GA and what they already have is a smart move!

I don't know if anyone else on here really knows this, but, he also bought the company PEPPERBALL (you know, those A5 looking guns that "Dog the Bounty Hunter" uses that shoot pepper filled balls, and Less Lethal First Strike stuff that is awesome!)... You're right about the Less Lethal side of TA being an important part of the business, but I think they do a great job of handling both...

As far as them having Ninja regs... Yeah, currently they have used the 13/3000 ci tanks from Ninja... But obviously, that will be changing over to GA 13/3000's....

Does it really matter that much to you?? Ninja regs are better!! No, GA regs are better!! No, Ninja regs are better! No, GA regs are better!!

It's a small tank and small reg with roughly the same benefits and drawbacks...

Look, Ninja and Guerilla BOTH make great products... And, after the stuff with Dan Colby, that made up my mind and that was enough for me to NOT purchase GA stuff...

But now, i know it will be run by good people... Who are in this for the long haul... That are going to be around when you need them... I'm in! I'm excited to give them another chance...
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