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|07-30-2012, 11:36 AM||#61 (permalink)|
They shoud target canada, we wont complain as much as usa.
Here out pump ball is GI at 35$/bag and the 'high grade' draxxus at 40$/bag
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|07-30-2012, 12:45 PM||#62 (permalink)|
Join Date: Apr 2006
Why don't we keep our attention on whether it WORKS as advertised and let hydrotech worry about whether it will SELL.
Every time some new product comes out we get a 20 page thread, with 18 of them filled with people telling us they won't sell because they're A. too expensive B. not what people want C. Too cheaply made.
Don't forget the unspoken hipster D. "I didn't see 'em first and don't get to take credit for discovering them, so I've got to crap on a product I know nothing about".
NOONE knows anything about the paint market in the US, so you're all just guessing what will sell or won't.
Save your clairvoyance for lotto tickets, then you can afford good paint!
Not anyone at RPS with any authority knows squat and not Draxxus either at least.
RPS wouldn't have sent a truck of uncured walmart junk in tournament boxes to the living legends game's THOUSANDS of customers, while sending a perfectly crafted truck of artisan quality paint to the hundreds at the NPPL field 150 YARDS AWAY if they did.
All we had to do was walk over there to see that we were getting the shaft on purpose. Alot of us did.
RPS sends subquality product to everyone except their favorites. So I left there saying if you want good paint and don't have their logo tattooed on your forehead, stay away from RPS!!!
Draxxus has in the past done exactly the same sort of thing, I'm sure the others are guilty too.
If this paint works as advertised, if the managers aren't such knuckleheads they torpedo their own business before it starts and they're able to deliver product consistently it will sell unbelievably.
The paint companies are like a character in a mortal combat game, staggering back and forth with finish me written across their chests. A really well managed company with any ethical standards at all could shove them right down, take their lunch money and send them home.
Draxxus over the last few years before Battaglia got it back(we'll see..) had screwed Hell Survivors in Mi so bad they decided to let RPS send a test batch of evil tournament for players to try.
Bear in mind that Hell Survivors sells between 10-20 MILLION paintballs a year(this number based on number of trucks I've seen unloaded at the field versus # of paintballs on a truck and is in no way official).
Yes, that's right. RPS sent us uncured poop.
I couldn't shoot 2 TPX mags without a break, we couldn't even find 2 in a bag with the E logo the same size on them. The guys at Draxxus owe them dinner, at least!
More consistent, accurate paint IS an unfilled niche market right now...
Because markers have been designed to put up with and cover up horrible crap with high volume.
Modern markers have no consistent design motto other than accuracy by volume.
Just like bad 12grams, mostly from crosman killed the lever changer, bad paint has killed any marker that can't hose enough out to compensate.
When good consistent paint becomes available, ultra high ROF will slowly go away, no longer necessary.
If every paintball, or even most, goes where you aim it, you don't need to throw ropes down a lane for 5 minutes at $1 a second. You just wait for someone to try it, then shoot them.
I'll buy these and I bet I'll be in a line when I do!
We play Pistol and we encourage the Few despite the discouragement of the Many.
Last edited by agentSmith; 07-30-2012 at 12:56 PM.
|07-30-2012, 01:05 PM||#64 (permalink)|
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Vancouver, BC
(this might already have been brought up) about the weight concern, which most of us serious guys have brought up in discussion: the 2.8 gram paint may not fly as far, but it will shoot higher velocities than heavier paint, so efficiency in stock class markers will be superior. Also, people are saying the paint will bounce on a drop test but breaks extremely well on target... I wonder if it will also be more resistant to breakage in a high pressure/SC gun chronoed at 300 FPS? Very interested to try this stuff for those two reasons. reduced range is a fair trade for excellent consistency and efficiency.
(also, it's very fair to assume that in time, Hydrotec may produce a heavier round by using higher density additives in the fill, I think that would be a popular next step along with the obvious move to a reduced cost product for field grade use)
edit: also... .686 size... glad to see they didn't try to go right down to .680.
|07-30-2012, 02:03 PM||#65 (permalink)|
Join Date: Apr 2011
It's very similar to the 50 cal performance concerns actually.
Less weight not only equates to less range, but also makes the round more susceptible to cross winds and reduces potential break energy. Hopefully the 'new' shell is more fragile or the fill somehow compensates for the reduced break energy.
No one knows of Hydrotec's consistency or accuracy anymore than they know what it will cost. Based on my experiences with perfect circle rounds I'm betting it performs worse.
A lighter ball is NOT a more efficient ball. True, you'll get more shots shooing a 2.8g ball at 290fps than a 3.0g at 290fps. Although that's apples and oranges. A better comparison is 280fps with 3.0g. That's the SAME efficiency while getting BETTER performance (with 3.0g paint).
The player benefits of this paint have yet to be tested (accuracy, consistency).
The drawbacks are known from the light weight (more susceptible to cross winds, less break energy)
The field owner benefits are huge and obvious. (to those of us who own and inquired about the terms... even more so).
-If this is a boon for field owners like falling paint prices a few decades back.. Wouldn't the same thing happen? A sudden increase in poorly run fields?
-If the field owner benefits ALONE cause it to become ubiquitous... doesn't that just encourage spray-n-pray techniques?
|07-30-2012, 03:46 PM||#66 (permalink)|
Join Date: Mar 2008
Hydrotec uses a commercial shell material and a custom fill material. So, why do you think they've been so late to getting this product in even a limited number of customer's hands? I'm guessing either a lack of investment or, manufacturing problems.
.683, 3g DXS Silver ball
Maximum Range: 94 Yards
Angle for Max Range: 26 Degrees
Terminal Energy: .453FtLb
.686 2.62gram Ball:
Maximum Range: 86yards
Angle for Max Range: 25deg
Terminal Energy: 0.348FtLb
.686 3.5gram Theoretical ball (ASTM max weight):
Maximum Range: 104yards
Angle for Max Range: 27deg
Terminal Energy: 0.613FtLb
Their resistance to wind, time of flight, drop, and impact energy charts all scale similarly to how the above numbers scale. Those charts can be viewed here and here.
What nobody knows is how fragile the rounds are. That would allow for a direct comparison to put the impact force in perspective. For example, are hydrotec rounds ~23% more fragile, thereby making up for the ~23% difference in impact energy at a given range. Theoretically, it could be that Hydrotec rounds are fragile enough that they break more often than the heavier ball at extended ranges.
My personal question about these rounds pertain to the shell material. With FS rounds and they higher ridigity and fragility, when they break, the edges of the broken shell can be somewhat jagged that combined with the rigidity, leads to a slightly higher amount of skin cutting/scratching on impact to bare skin(extremely minor in my opinon). I wonder how hydrotec's shell performs in this regard.
As far as hydrotec ronds encouraging spray and pray, I would say so if the cost was cheaper than current FPO prices. Simply put, the constraints of a limited weight, spherical projectile will always suck enough that accuracy through volume will be be the easiest means of getting an elimination.
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First Strike Round Field Listing | External Ballistics, FSRs and PBs
|07-30-2012, 04:52 PM||#67 (permalink)|
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
|07-30-2012, 11:19 PM||#68 (permalink)|
Join Date: Apr 2011
As I understand it, you have a unique business model? More quality versus quantity so-to-speak? Maybe you would see no benefits.
P.S. Personally I would love to see more fields that are rental only with one brand of paint. Everyone on the same level completely eliminates any concern over caliber, weight, ROF, ramping, etc. Not every field mind you, just a few here and there geared to the beginner who doesn't mind waiting a few weeks for a group to build up.... or those of us who got busy with life.
Last edited by P0E; 07-30-2012 at 11:27 PM.
|07-31-2012, 12:22 AM||#69 (permalink)|
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: San Fran now
Patent US7905181 - Bioluminescent paintball - Google Patents
I bet it is a carboxy methyl cellulose suspension in a PLA or carageenan shell. THe patent is relatively weak. neat idea, too bad it didn't work out to make a biolumenescent paintball so they had to use the tooling for something else.