General

[heinous]

Originally Posted by Pif

China doesn't mean bottom of the barrel. Many high end, and precision parts come from China. It's all about how much a company wants to pay to have something produced there.

doesn't matter, people need a nation to antagonize.

also, the whole point of outsourcing is to have it done cheaper and with lower quality. nobody would want to pay high dollar to import something that can be done domestically.

[PsychOfMSE]

We have these as rentals at the field I operate and they are GREAT. We have 35 of these and another 50 98s and we only resort to dipping into the 98s if we absolutely have to. They are by far the easiest to work on and have already taken some abuse in the month or so that we've been renting them out. I've seen them slid across the field many of times with no problems whatsoever. They've been dropped off the back of golf carts and while the hopper broke the gun still ran great.

If I was a renter and I had a choice between an FT-12 and a 98 I'd take the FT-12 for sure.

[PsychOfMSE]

Originally Posted by heinous

doesn't matter, people need a nation to antagonize.

also, the whole point of outsourcing is to have it done cheaper and with lower quality. nobody would want to pay high dollar to import something that can be done domestically.

And no, the point of outsourcing is to provide a lower priced product, but not necessarily built with less quality control. Look at domestic american cars of the 1980s compared to their Japanese counterparts.

[burscott]

It looks like a 90 degree grip and a trilogy style blade trigger?
How is the trigger pull? Is the frame/trigger plastic?

Glad to see the quick disassembly design. I too always hated the clamshell style -- it'd seem like as soon as I got it all back together I'd find a part I forgot :P

[PsychOfMSE]

Originally Posted by burscott

It looks like a 90 degree grip and a trilogy style blade trigger?
How is the trigger pull? Is the frame/trigger plastic?

Glad to see the quick disassembly design. I too always hated the clamshell style -- it'd seem like as soon as I got it all back together I'd find a part I forgot :P

Yes, the frame/trigger is plastic.

It feels much like a glock does, if you have ever owned/fired one before.

I stripped and rebuilt one just to see how long it took me. I got one stripped down + replaced all the orings in under 5 minutes. A far cry from a 98.

[danssoslow]

Originally Posted by heinous

also, the whole point of outsourcing is to have it done cheaper and with lower quality. nobody would want to pay high dollar to import something that can be done domestically.

2 word rebuttle: Arc Audio.
Hell, most all high priced boutiqe, american owned car audio manufacturers are selling high end wares manufactured in China. The Arc stuff is even disigned in China; but their prices and reputation are far beyond anything that might be associated with cheap China-made crap.
None of which is produced overseas due to a lack of buildhouses or facilities here in the United States.

[Axel]

Originally Posted by heinous

doesn't matter, people need a nation to antagonize.

also, the whole point of outsourcing is to have it done cheaper and with lower quality. nobody would want to pay high dollar to import something that can be done domestically.

That second statement is more or less my point. Though to be fair, $69 retail is going to be low quality no matter the origin, so apparently I did not think that one through.

It is true that American made does not equal quality and vice-versa. There's a reason that 50% of quality profession terminology is in Japanese. Now...



Cool concept, that FT-12. I'm the sort of sentimental nerd who enjoys the time spent working on the 98 clam shell (she was my first gun), but I appreciate the practicality. From a marketing perspective, if the FT-12 Rental takes/has taken off, I can see players wanting to buy there own version of the rental if they enjoyed playing with it.

[ra1d3x]

Originally Posted by heinous

doesn't matter, people need a nation to antagonize.

also, the whole point of outsourcing is to have it done cheaper and with lower quality. nobody would want to pay high dollar to import something that can be done domestically.

Outsourcing IS to have it manufactured cheaper but NOT necessarily lower quality. Outsourcing is because of the reasons of cheaper raw materials and/or cheaper manufacturing.

Even when you pay the manufacturers overseas to builld something of the best quality you will ever see, it is still much cheaper than manufacturing something of similar quality in the U.S.

If you opt for the cheapest option, you'll get the product and the low quality. If you opt for the best option, you'll get the product and the high quality. Both still cheaper than manufacturing in house.

Source: Working with multiple companies, retailers, manufacturers, etc.

P.S. (Not allowed to say what companies) but I can honestly tell you most of the companies that produce tactical gloves for our troops and law enforcements have their gloves manufactured overseas (China including) because of the cheaper raw materials and manufacturing. But the quality is superb enough to be supplied and used by our protectors. (I know the guy who owns the manufacturer that manufactures for those companies)

Sorry for the long rant, it's just lots of people have the wrong idea about outsourcing. Heck, even those precious high quality and expensive Apple products are made in China...

About the FT-12, it is great that Tippmann opted out of the clamshell design and got rid of the bottom line for this. However, I think they could've done better on the quick access design such as doing away with the collar and using self-contained push pins like on the ARs that keeps the upper and lower receivers together. Great marker non-the-less PLUS Tippmann's great customer service pushes this marker even higher on the list of awesomeness (only awesome things can be on it).

[Mike Deep]

Originally Posted by Kermit

http://ak.buy.com/PI/0/1000/232837093.jpg

This marker still seems better made in my opinion. I saw both of these at legends, and I was disappointed with the FT-12.

If I could get that BT-4 with a magazine well... Oh man. Last mech I would ever own.

[nerdcore]

Hm. I was excited at first because i liked the design, notably the grip frame. Can't have too many loaners (or too many guns, period). The neon yellow grip "cheeks" even look good. BUT I'd be more interested if it were priced more in the range of spyders or piranhas (er3), not in the same range as the 98 Custom.

The BT Slice is looking better, as it's within the same price range, less composite-y, and can still be upgraded if that suits you.