General

[Robertsr]

Ahh, but that's not actually Calvin, it's just a spiky haired little boy...



I don't really get all the venom leveled at Steve here. I want a bolt on pneumatic frame pretty much more than anyone. Having one from PTP would be even better since I'd keep my Micro's with PTP equipment. I don't see how yelling at Steve helps that out at all...

[Schmitti]

It doesn't help.. you are correct.

I think this is partially a carryover of the anger towards SP... and the fact that we all have a more personal relationship with RM (for example) than we have with a larger company that we may only deal with for warranty work.

Either way... in todays market, if I created something for paintball, I'd patent it and be pretty carefull about who was copying my work.

E

[Christian Nelson]

Speaking of illegal products on the market..

Anybody know about the JAM bolt vs ACS bolt from Kingman?

I mean, I am sure I saw the JAM out about 2 years before Kingman put out thier ACS.

Did JAM get a patent?

Could JAM even get to court if Kingman simply decided to violate the patent?

Was JAM bought out or payed?

Was there enough prior art that JAM couldn't patent the idea?

I see this as being similar, and to me, would be enough reason for PTP to want to patent the aftermarket product from big manufacturers simply taking it and running with it, putting PTP out of the running.

The kid peeing is a good example, I hear DIsney is always having to go after people putting Mickey, and Donald and so forth on junk illegaly.

IP law is a good thing, it can be frustrating when a company owns a copyright, does nothing with it, and punishes people who do though (like old arcade games that no one makes anymore, you get into trouble for copying the ROM's) and it is frustrating when a broadly worded patent gets through the system, and you get things like the elctronic trigger being patented, however, we saw that eventually the courts did figure that out, when a big enough company stood up to Smart parts.

In the mean time companies who couldn't afford the lawyers, knuckled under or gave up.
That was sad too. Maybe collectively, they could have hired a team, but would they be able to cooperate for that to have happened?

Then there is the whole music IP stuff, and so forth that brings to mind the fact that there are some obvious changes that will need to be made, but I think maybe they are starting to see this.

Ultimately, if your customers feel abused enough by your protection of IP, they will eventually go elsewhere or, just do without.

For example, I can't remember the last time I have bought a CD, or listened to any produced music. Probably not in the last 4 years at least.

The Big record companies were so zealous of thier IP, I found that I just don't really need thier music that badly, and you know what? I find I really am not missing much.

I rarely even listen to music on the radio anymore. I guess I have started to dislike produced audio. I go to bluegrass festivals, and listen to live music, and I make my own music by playing mandolin and so forth, and I can play whatever song I want, in my own home, so I really don't need them.

That same risk can be made in any defense of IP that any company makes. You can only go so far, before people just walk away altogether. I am getting that way about Microsoft really. I haven't bought any product of thiers, and really don't intend to since Windows 98SE. They have progressivly gotten more and more intrusive and given thier customers less and less service as time has gone on with thier products. Eventually, thier customers will go elsewhere. Eventually, the game makers will make more cross platform stuff, and there won't be any reason left to stay with them.

This is a risk you take. You can go after major competitors, or you can slap around your customers for buying your product and doing things you don't like. The customers will eventually leave you though, the competitors are fair game in my oppinion.

But, it is thiers, if they want to commit suicide (which I think M$ is doing) I suppose it is thier porrogative.

[stevedavidson]

Originally Posted by Brewtt

This lame patent has already shutdown people out of FEAR of future litigation, etc. Effectively doing the same thing that a CAD letter would do as the end result is the same. So effectively it absolutely WAS PTP who unintentionally/INTENTIONALLY stopped "others" from making their own versions that they were happily making BEFORE this stupid patent stuff came along. ...Big guy crushing little guy.

First - "BIG GUY" is laughable. I'd like to know how a company like DYE, or SP or WDP would be described if Pro-Team is "Big". Pro-Team is a husband and wife, a couple of consultants and three or four guys in a machine shop...

Secondly - do you mean to tell me that Pro-Team is capable of mind control? You know - swirling hypno patterns and a voice droning in the background "you will not make a pneutrigger"...?

Come on. We've got 12 million players out there, each of whom does whatever they want, whenever they want, but when it comes to the PTP patents they suddenly march in lockstep?

One person makes a (good) business decision to stop making potentially infringing material available publicly and PTP was somehow behind it?

The only thing that has ever appeared in print regarding PTP's intellectual property has been information about what they (claim to) have patented, what they think it covers, explanations of patent legal issues and histories of how the patent came to be; discussions of what others claim are prior art and the relationships between PTP's pneu-trigger patent and other, similar patents.

What you're saying is the functional equivalent of blaming a driving instructor who says "you know, if you repeatedly drive over the speed limit, you might get a ticket someday" for some folks actually obeying the speed limit signs.

[Brewtt]

Effectively this patent talk has done what I said. You happen see it different. Whatever. It's still done what I said it did.

[Painthappy]

I just picked up a PTP Micromag. LOVE IT.

All I needed to say.

[stevedavidson]

cool. Which generation (1st, 2nd or 2000?)

btw - plugged New Boston into google earth - not too far away

[going_home]

Originally Posted by Painthappy

I just picked up a PTP Micromag. LOVE IT.

All I needed to say.

We want pics.

[custar]

Originally Posted by Schmitti

I think this is partially a carryover of the anger towards SP... and the fact that we all have a more personal relationship with RM (for example) than we have with a larger company that we may only deal with for warranty work.

On PBN, I have been a vocal critic of SP's alleged electro patents, not because they are using those patents to shut down competition but because I have issues with the patents themselves and how SP obtained them. This situation with PTP is different for me. Like Shartley, I am not a patent attorney by trade, so I have to let others with more knowledge in the area of pneumatics address whether the Vector, etc. constitute prior art. My question is whether a product using this technology will be produced? If so (in the relatively near future), best wishes and more power to you. I was also saving up money for a RM pneumag conversion, but if PTP has a legitimate patent and will bring a product to market at an affordable price, I'm interested. If not, then perhaps Rainman can produce his pneuframes under a low-cost licensing agreement.

So, can we expect a pneuframe for mags any time soon? I would love one for my Micromag and Tac One.

custar

[Painthappy]

The picture is here: