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Old 10-05-2012, 04:33 PM   #101 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by russc View Post
What the hell is with their naming schemes these days, though? Terribad.
I know right. They will probably release an elecrto version (ION) and call it fRNd.
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:36 PM   #102 (permalink)
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So far as chop protection goes, is the vibe/SP-1 bolt soft enough to prevent breaks by itself?
It's fairly soft by design. I will put my finger in MY vibe breech. However, the softness is due to the low chamber pressure and slow speed (force) of the bolt. Once you start trying to jack up the rof, you need higher pressure to cycle the bolt, and the soft cycle goes out the window. The whole marker matches up with low pressure CO2, low rate of fire (11 bps), and low bolt force. After poking around on it for a while, I put an extra o-ring on the bolt tail and left the rest alone.

The trigger operation on this one is a big question for me as well. I can chuff a pneumag. If there's nothing between the trigger valve and the bolt operation, I doubt I'll be able tolerate it. A little mechanical break-over mechanism would work though.
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:52 PM   #103 (permalink)
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Interested in how it works.

In regard to what SP did and why I want our IP system to die:
Everything is a Remix

Note that the credits are in the middle of each movie and there are several before they get into the patent system.

P.S. The creator has the most awesome hair style I've seen since Estrada.
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:25 PM   #104 (permalink)
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According to someone on PBN who claims to have shot one at GOG, the bolt remains forward until trigger release, which means it is just a normally open 3-way (i.e. no pulse valve or any other funniness).
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:33 PM   #105 (permalink)
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Since one eventually always brings up patents when discussing the Gardners, it would be interesting to see if Colin Bryant Moritz has anything to say about this new marker:

Patent US6990971 - Pneumatically amplified trigger actuator for a gas operated marker gun - Google Patents

Not directly applicable, but it's the first patent that came to my mind vaguely similar to this marker.
I doubt they care since they moved the company to Costa Rica.
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I'd wipe, play-on and overshoot.
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Old 10-06-2012, 12:21 AM   #106 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by y0da900 View Post
According to someone on PBN who claims to have shot one at GOG, the bolt remains forward until trigger release, which means it is just a normally open 3-way (i.e. no pulse valve or any other funniness).
If true, this is discouraging. If the dwell is fully controlled the user's trigger, this would also seem to indicate that it would be possible to short-stroke the trigger, resulting in non-shots in some circumstances.
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Old 10-06-2012, 12:49 AM   #107 (permalink)
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A short enough throw on the 3-way can severely reduce the potential to short stroke. You would probably have to intentionally pull the trigger as slowly as possible with a rapid release to cause a short stroke.
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Old 10-06-2012, 01:41 AM   #108 (permalink)
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I doubt they care since they moved the company to Costa Rica.
-Wouldn't matter, since in the case of a patent violation, they could block importation of the markers into the US.

Somebody earlier mentioned the idea that GOG developed this in order to use their existing tech (the Ion design) but not to have to pay royalties on their own electronic marker patent.

I would not be the least surprised if this was, in fact, the truth, but that doesn't take in account the spool valve patent. As I understand it, SP had to license the spool valve tech from DYE, who either patented it or bought the patent back in the early Matrix days.

Again as I understand it (and I'd love to hear more info if you have it) that SP and DYE worked out a deal so both parties could use each other's tech. If that's true, naturally any agreement dissolved along with SP themselves, but that wouldn't leave GOG free and clear to start making spoolvalves again- regardless of where their factory or offices are located.

Of course, it might be that GOG is licensing the spoolers, but going mech in order to keep from having to also license the E-gun tech.

All idle speculation, of course. Any other info?

Doc.
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Old 10-06-2012, 01:56 AM   #109 (permalink)
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You know what, this is the first non electro that has come along in a long time. There have been alot of crappy guns and clones produced over the yrs.

The Vibe and SP1 were designed to get players back in the sport. Alot of players and families are on hard times. Maybe this new gun will help them get back on the field and play.

Atleast they are marketing and making guns for the entry level players. Something I haven't seen in a long time.

Instead of worring about patten issues and who is going to send who to court, we should worry about getting players out onto the fields.

Atleast this new gun is offering upgrade parts when the player is ready. This gun can grow with the player to his/her's next level. The gun or any gun we use is only as good as the person using it.

Later,
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Old 10-06-2012, 04:24 AM   #110 (permalink)
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Instead of worring about patten issues and who is going to send who to court, we should worry about getting players out onto the fields.
-While I agree in sentiment, the fact is that the founders of GOG are, in fact, the former founders of Smart Parts, and SP effectively launched the patent wars- which led directly to ICD and AKA dropping their marker lines, and indirectly to AGD dropping theirs.

And they did it using a patent they bought from another company, after they bankrupted them, deliberately and directly, by ordering more markers than the small business could produce, and then refusing to pay for them.

Sorry, but the GOG/ex-SP guys made their own bed, and now they have to sleep in it.

I won't badmouth this new gun just because it's a GOG product, and I may even buy one eventually. (Why not? I've owned at least one of almost everything else... ) And I'm not recommending anyone else not buy it, or suggesting any kind of a boycott. But the issue of the patents is a valid one, and absent of outright malice, makes for an interesting discussion.

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