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Old 09-19-2013, 06:57 PM   #611 (permalink)
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I'm using the MilSig adjustable riser and a 2-7 x 32 scope with a reflex site on a 45 degree rail just in front of it. The Scope is for first strike long range and the reflex is good for regular paint or FS at short range.

Then at night I switch over from those to and use a ThOR 1x19mm Thermal scope ranged out to about 50 yards.
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Old 09-19-2013, 08:41 PM   #612 (permalink)
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Then let me be an exception to your rule. Here is my current setup:

http://b17queenofthesky.com/paintbal...rett_2_001.jpg

That barrel is 22" long. It's .683 in bore out until the porting. I have fired first strikes and regular paint through it. It chronos at 285 easily without issue with regular paint. If ever there would be a DAM that was going to leak trying to chrono legal, this would be the one.

I also have a number of DAMs on my scenario team. One or two of them had the issue with the bolt but now that they have the new bolt, no issues. We have about 13 of these total.

So maybe more than one exception. I've worked in manufacturing before with items similar to this and what most fail to understand is the basic principle of mass release. You can test a product for months, have it work flawlessly, and then once you release it to the public something happens that you never were able to have happen during testing. This is especially true of innovative products.

That's Great! I envy you and your team mates.

Last edited by Mickey_Kn0x; 09-19-2013 at 09:14 PM.
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Old 09-19-2013, 11:44 PM   #613 (permalink)
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That's Great! I envy you and your team mates.
Do you feel better now that someone has explained the "basic principle of mass release" to you?
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Old 09-20-2013, 02:04 AM   #614 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Robotech View Post
I'm using the MilSig adjustable riser and a 2-7 x 32 scope with a reflex site on a 45 degree rail just in front of it. The Scope is for first strike long range and the reflex is good for regular paint or FS at short range.

Then at night I switch over from those to and use a ThOR 1x19mm Thermal scope ranged out to about 50 yards.
How does the riser work? Can you adjust it easily on the fly like the tiberius riser, or does it use a set screw like the killjoy adjustable rail?

I ran my DAM at SC village a week or two ago for the magfed only game and used the tiberius rail, v2. The marker chrono'd and shot amazing (hammerhead barrel with .686 insert & used first strike exclusively), and the tiberius rail was spot on, but it sat too high. I have the same problem with the killjoy rail. The DAM's stock is already lowered for use with a mask, so its kind of annoying to use such a high rail that throws my natural sight line off.
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Old 09-20-2013, 02:25 PM   #615 (permalink)
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Do you feel better now that someone has explained the "basic principle of mass release" to you?
I'm not going to start a argument. If yours works that's great, I truly am happy for you. Mass release? What does that mean. Any time a product is released its a mass release. If dye did the necessary r&d there wouldn't be problems. You don't get mass problems like this when you do your homework. Do you think this is all in my head? It's easy to judge when your on the outside. I want this gun to do well, and dye. What do you suggest I do since you appear to have such great wisdom.

Last edited by Mickey_Kn0x; 09-20-2013 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 09-20-2013, 03:15 PM   #616 (permalink)
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i may be mistaken but i think goat boy's statement was heavily tinged with sarcasm.....
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Old 09-20-2013, 08:10 PM   #617 (permalink)
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i may be mistaken but i think goat boy's statement was heavily tinged with sarcasm.....
Guess I should read more carefully before I post... I'm just fired up on this subject. Anyways, last post for me regarding the dye dam, unless I getting it working right.

Last edited by Mickey_Kn0x; 09-20-2013 at 08:33 PM.
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Old 09-23-2013, 07:32 PM   #618 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Admanobrien View Post
How does the riser work? Can you adjust it easily on the fly like the tiberius riser, or does it use a set screw like the killjoy adjustable rail?

I ran my DAM at SC village a week or two ago for the magfed only game and used the tiberius rail, v2. The marker chrono'd and shot amazing (hammerhead barrel with .686 insert & used first strike exclusively), and the tiberius rail was spot on, but it sat too high. I have the same problem with the killjoy rail. The DAM's stock is already lowered for use with a mask, so its kind of annoying to use such a high rail that throws my natural sight line off.
The MilSig uses a set screw but I'm thinking about modifying that with a longer screw and a wing nut to adjust it on the field.

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Originally Posted by Mickey_Kn0x View Post
Mass release? What does that mean. Any time a product is released its a mass release.
Mass Release vs Limited Release. Some products are very specific to a particular market. In the automotive world, a Ferrari, Lamborgini, or Royals Royce would be considered "limited release" items. They are produced in very limited quantities and each worker takes great care in making sure their particular part of the process is flawless. In the paintball world, something like a Palmer's Pyre is more like a limited release product. A limited release product can be produced using the methods of mass production so the two, production and release, are not the same.

Mass released, which would be things that are released on a mass scale and the same attention to detail is abscent. The DAM is most certainly a Mass Released product.

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If dye did the necessary r&d there wouldn't be problems. You don't get mass problems like this when you do your homework. Do you think this is all in my head? It's easy to judge when your on the outside. I want this gun to do well, and dye. What do you suggest I do since you appear to have such great wisdom.
I like that quoted phrase. Have you ever been part of a manufacturing business like Dye? I have. I worked for a company called HPI back in the early 2000s. We were working on what would become the Rush stadium gas truck. We tested the truck and everything was fine. We had no problems. As soon as the truck was released. We started having issues. Spur gears were stripping out and originally we chaulked it up to user error because a stripped spur gear is something that is usually caused by someone not lining up the gears correctly or a screw coming lose, the engine shifting, and the gear mesh getting off causing the stripped spur. However, the number of them started to rise and we had to look into it further. We found that the chassis were bending in a strange diagonal across the engine mount. In our testing, we had never seen this failure. So we went to repeat it. What we found was our users were jumping the trucks off high jumps and high-siding the chassis on the peak of another jump (High siding is where the chassis strikes the top of the jump and only the rear wheels come down on the face of the jump). Repeated high sides caused the bend.

The reason we didn't discover this in testing was because our drivers who test our vehicles could drive and knew how to jump properly without high siding the truck.

This is just one issue you get from items that are released to a large number of customers. Sometimes only a small percentage of customers have a problem but when you have 10 customers you may only have 1 have a problem. 100 customers, 10 problems. 1,000 customers, 100 problems. That's why in a limited release item you may only see one or two issues but when you have a mass released item you may see 100 problems. Combined with the fact that you only hear from that group that has problems it may often seem like a product has a horrible issue when, in reality, only 3% of the products exhibit the issue.

If Dye has gone so far as to create a fix, this issue isn't a 3% issue. You don't make fixes for 3% issues. You make fixes for 6% + issues. 10% + issues. But to say that the cause of this issue is because Dye didn't do their homework or that ALL DAMs MUST have this issue is unfair.

You want to know what you should do. Send the DAM in. You don't want to pay shipping? Well thank those asshats that break their **** then try to get it fixed for free for claiming it was a warranty issue and they did nothing wrong. That's why companies like Dye make you send the item in at your cost. At HPI we had customers send in engines under warranty that they swore were always run with an air cleaner and when we would take the engine apart, a half teaspoon...and I'm not exagerating here...of dirt poured out of the engine. Out of every 10 engines we got, 9 showed signs of customer neglect as the primary cause of failure...either no air cleaner or the engine was ran too lean. We had people gripe about having to "pay to send in a defective product too." but we never had people complain about fixing their enigne for free after sending it in even though it wasn't a manufacturer's defect that caused the failure.

My thought: Contact Dye, explain your situation and your displeasure at you having to send in your marker at your cost and ask, if it turns out to be a bad bolt from the factory, what they can do to reinburse you the cost of shipping. Maybe they can send you a couple mags or something of equal value to your shipping costs for your troubles.
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Old 09-24-2013, 02:11 AM   #619 (permalink)
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The giveaway was your use of the word "innovative" in your original explanation.

Normally, you only hear that word used by people such as reporters, politicians, and people more on the business/management end of the spectrum struggling to say something meaningful about technology and industry.

True technical people don't rely on such crutch words.

There is no such thing as "basic principle of mass release." Also, "principle" and "excuse" are not synonyms. Your detailed explanation was more bizarre than the short form.

Furthermore, there is no correlation between the "innovativeness" of a product and defects.

There is correlation between "complexity" and defects. A quick design inspection of the DAM should point out the obvious.

Some defects are simply a result of a coverage hole, and that already indicates a faulty test plan/implementation.

But when a product is defective right out of the box? That's a quality-at-time-zero issue. That's not some crazy corner case.

That's lack of due diligence.

Wait, let me dress that up. Basic principle of lack of due diligence. Much more businesslike.



Mickey_Kn0x: My recommendation? If Dye won't play ball, be very, very publicly vocal about your displeasure. Your goal should be to put yourself in the top percentile of unhappy customers who tell, what, 30 or more people (I can't recall the specific numbers, but I think 30 would do it) about your unsatisfactory experience with product and company. I'd go ahead and just keep the DAM and bring it with me every week to the field so everyone there could have some personal hands-on time with a malfunctioning DAM.
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He posts videos of himself on Youtube never leaving the furthest back bunker.
Even when playing against rental noobs, he is immobilized.
Logic and reason are anathema to him; but this does not deter him from prattling on.
He is the most interesting player in the world.
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Old 09-24-2013, 08:49 AM   #620 (permalink)
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