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Old 10-09-2013, 09:41 PM   #731 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big jim View Post
If the Torque delivers on it's promise it belongs with the high end guns. Otherwise, for a initial offering from a start-up people might be slow jumping on board fearing a thumper fiasco.
.
Someone is going to get thumped real bad....


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Originally Posted by Menace View Post
Save your breath. POE is sharp, but also has a tendency towards idealism, pugilism and cynicism. These aren't bad qualities (far from it), but they can be abrasive in the absence of context. He'll have to weigh in if he cares to, but my guess is that he would say that there isn't enough 'real' innovation/novelty/tech transcendence, etc. to justify the price tag, and that this is yet another example of a pointless marker with only superficial differences generated by, for, and with, more art than substance.

If this is indeed his position I would disagree with him, and suggest he's leaping from a number of weak premises and missing a number of key points, but at the same time, I'd also argue that it's enormously healthy to have folk like him in our company, and we should value his perspective and criticism, even if it irritates and offends. Indeed, especially because it irritates and offends. It's hard to improve in the absence of criticism.
O_O

I am a cynic. Ask John (7PB).. Him and our mutual friend say I have a lead hat on due to paintball conspiracies :P

With that being said, I genuinely want to know what he thinks. I am a dealer. I sell these things, y'know? If someone doesn't like it or the idea of it, I WANT TO KNOW as a customer and as a dealer!!
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:47 PM   #732 (permalink)
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fearing a thumper fiasco
That is why we are not taking any money until the gun ships out.

The last thing we want to do is that.

Part of the reason for a soft launch, to make sure things start slow, we launch at a good pace, and the parts are only in orders of 100, not 1000 that get screwed up.

Lot of lessons in this industry.
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Old 10-09-2013, 10:20 PM   #733 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by J4 Paintball View Post
That is why we are not taking any money until the gun ships out.

The last thing we want to do is that.

Part of the reason for a soft launch, to make sure things start slow, we launch at a good pace, and the parts are only in orders of 100, not 1000 that get screwed up.

Lot of lessons in this industry.
That Lesson should apply to all Industry.
Some take it more to heart than the Big Dogs.
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Old 10-09-2013, 10:35 PM   #734 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathwish_DW View Post
Someone is going to get thumped real bad....




O_O

I am a cynic. Ask John (7PB).. Him and our mutual friend say I have a lead hat on due to paintball conspiracies :P

With that being said, I genuinely want to know what he thinks. I am a dealer. I sell these things, y'know? If someone doesn't like it or the idea of it, I WANT TO KNOW as a customer and as a dealer!!
Again, POE can answer for himself; he's plenty capable. I just took a stab based on things he's said elsewhere in past. I also wanted to head off a senseless quarrel based on misunderstanding, when it could/should be a reasoned conversation based on mutual understanding. There is also the very pointed concern (voiced by Big Jim and Josh) of past examples. Machine Vapor, anyone? Big price tag for an upstart company producing what is not only not particularly innovative, but in many ways a step backward.

There doesn't seem to be any whiff of that here. Could be mistaken of course, and time will tell as it always does, but for what this appears to be, the price tag seems right there. Pretty excited about this, actually. I think a lot of times people get tunnel vision and fail to appreciate all that goes into a new thing like this.
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Old 10-10-2013, 09:03 AM   #735 (permalink)
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Machine Vapor, anyone? Big price tag for an upstart company producing what is not only not particularly innovative, but in many ways a step backward.
Yes, another lesson. We could have tarted up the body some, did the nice box, barrel and anodizing - but we felt that it wouldn't be that accessible, even with the tech we threw in there.

'Machine' - well, Spurlock, has been making guns for quite a while. Many of them inexpensive (dragun, Wrath, O2/O3) and then some more expensive (SP guns for a bit) and then the ZR and Vapor. So, more experience then us, until we partnered with ValveFlow.
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Old 10-10-2013, 02:40 PM   #736 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathwish_DW View Post
Someone is going to get thumped real bad....




O_O

I am a cynic. Ask John (7PB).. Him and our mutual friend say I have a lead hat on due to paintball conspiracies :P

With that being said, I genuinely want to know what he thinks. I am a dealer. I sell these things, y'know? If someone doesn't like it or the idea of it, I WANT TO KNOW as a customer and as a dealer!!
It's Tin Foil hat... Like crazy people wear.
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Old 10-10-2013, 03:11 PM   #737 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathwish_DW View Post
I have a lead hat on due to paintball conspiracies :P
The lead hat explains a lot actually......

But on that note, I am heading over to Badlandz this coming Saturday and then over to PB Explosion on Sunday. I will have a preproduction sample in tow, possibly two of them. So if you see me stop by and ask about it. I'm not terribly shy and have no problems letting folks get a better look at what's going on.

Last edited by AngelChaser; 10-10-2013 at 03:13 PM. Reason: Travel plans
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Old 10-10-2013, 03:52 PM   #738 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J4 Paintball View Post
Yes, another lesson. We could have tarted up the body some, did the nice box, barrel and anodizing - but we felt that it wouldn't be that accessible, even with the tech we threw in there.

'Machine' - well, Spurlock, has been making guns for quite a while. Many of them inexpensive (dragun, Wrath, O2/O3) and then some more expensive (SP guns for a bit) and then the ZR and Vapor. So, more experience then us, until we partnered with ValveFlow.
Not to worry; the body looks plenty 'tart' enough. Part of its elegance lies in the simple, clean lines. Keep doing what you're doing, and save the tart for the toaster.

Same with packaging. I've never understood the desire for a lot of nifty packaging. You are paying extra for all that stuff, and for what? Does it make the thing go faster? Last longer? Shoot farther? You aren't carting the box onto the field, nor the manual, nor any of the other stuff. The marker should be a tool, not a fashion accessory. Beauty is great, of course, don't get me wrong, but part of a thing's beauty should lie in its proper function. Is anyone ogling their own marker when they play? A marker should simply do its job, on demand. Perhaps having a nice-looking marker is fine when you have it broken down yet again for teching.

Concerning the Machine/Spurlock thing, that's very interesting. Had no idea. Seemed really weird to have a brand new name come out with such a massive price tag on its first day out. That explains a lot. Thank you for the clarification.
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Old 10-10-2013, 05:21 PM   #739 (permalink)
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Forgive me if I am wrong, but I don't think I've seen the black/Red combo in the rendering shots. For those of us who are bending over to get one of these beauties, I think we'd like to possibly see what all combos look like at launch.
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Old 10-10-2013, 05:40 PM   #740 (permalink)
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Forgive me if I am wrong, but I don't think I've seen the black/Red combo in the rendering shots. For those of us who are bending over to get one of these beauties, I think we'd like to possibly see what all combos look like at launch.
A Little Bird has told me, NEW Renderings are on the way!
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