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Old 11-12-2013, 04:00 PM   #851 (permalink)
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where can i preorder one?
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Old 11-12-2013, 04:47 PM   #852 (permalink)
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Lots of us dealers have them up for PreOrder.
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Old 11-12-2013, 05:29 PM   #853 (permalink)
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Hurry up Josh!
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Old 11-12-2013, 11:49 PM   #854 (permalink)
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tl;dr?

Sorry to keep you anxiously waiting. Life's priorities you know.



The mindset.



To make clear..
You're saying evidence in support of your assumptions is entirely limited to the fact you could not hear a difference when dry firing up to 42cps?!



Only way to know that is if you actually used a pressure sensor and graphed it, but based on the "so it would be fine at 25bps" comment, I have to assume you never measured this with paint!? ..if even without.

"60cps reg that vents at mach 2.5" is like saying "1000mpg wheel that free falls at 200MPH". There are so many assumptions and missing variables in that statement, I would be ashamed to post it. It's simply bombastic.




There you go again mixing "drop off","with paint" and "cps". Please stop beating around the bush and tell us what you actually tested and how. It sounds like you simply fired a bunch of balls while trying to get the thing to function and now like to imagine it operates as you would like.

Eyes DO slow down the gun. I've never said otherwise. In fact, I'll do you a solid and explain how and why it's more important to test with eyes ON than OFF.

Solenoids take a notable time to actuate. The fastest (not likely yours) take >5ms to mostly turn on and >5ms to mostly turn off. Total cycle time isn't simply turn-on + turn-off time either. Because of various factors like residual magnetic flux and residual spool momentum there needs to be a delay between toggling. Often you'll see manufacturer's maximum operating frequencies 2x to 5x slower than what the response time would lead you to believe is capable.

When eyes are off, any solenoid delay is hidden by activating the solenoid before the previous cycle has completed. When the eyes are on, this solenoid delay is added to the marker's total cycle time. Many times hoppers are incorrectly blamed for slow on-gun/eyes-on performance when in fact the solenoid delay can play an equally large role.

Finally, solenoids in paintball markers are never driven properly and I have never seen one turned off in less than 15ms.



What failed? I'm more familiar with structured testing involving data collection and iterative experimentation to arrive at a predetermined goal or unexpected discovery. Your method is probably good too.

Like I said earlier, it's fine if you were just 'wingin' it. Only guessing as to the functional dynamics and performance. No judgement there. Just wanted to make sure I understood correctly where your assumptions were coming from in the off chance you had data to back it up.

I wouldn't consider 20+ years experience as a manager/engineering-enthusiast as support for arguments that you can hear the slightest "shootdown" from a marker cycling without paint though. It actually just sounds ridiculous.



An engineer understands that every project is a series of compromises refined as a function of time. Therefore time is maximized for each decision they care about (lunch). It's the very reason engineers appear to be miracle workers at the 11th hour. They simply compromise more as the deadline approaches. There's no such thing as "over thinking", although I can see how poor project planning can be interpreted as such.



This must be a managing mindset. My manager says the same things..

"kill the engineers and ship it"...
"An engineer is someone who's good with math, but doesn't have the personality of an accountant...." he says.

Understand that it is simply because of our previous interactions where it was crystal clear you never took a first year thermodynamics class and struggle with engineering basics that I question your analysis of the dynamics over my own interpretations. Real, measured data would help advance this discussion further.

To put this to bed, maybe you could pay someone to graph each shot's velocity (starting with the very first) at 15bps with eyes on? I'm honestly surprised you never did any real testing like this earlier.

Nice milling BTW.
uncalled for. seriously your just picking on the guy to be a dick. Josh was just guessing what it might be capable of and never said he was an engineer with scientific tests in an xray machine to know fully how it works. Tourneys dont let you shoot over 10bps anyway. nobody cares how fast it shoots with eyes on either although im sure its over that. Fact is it works. Your maybe right about that soleniod stuff but if you want a millions balls per second buy a $1000.00 gun. If you want something unique you buy this gun for almost half as much. all the benifits of a spool with easy to clean ball breaks, comes with a conversion kit to be mech or pump too.

Their a small company and need our support because it helps all of paintball if they succeed. Embarrasing Josh hurts his company our community as a hole just so you can be an a$$. Paintball has needed better customer service and I met these guys, their so chill. I cant wait to get mine.
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:00 AM   #855 (permalink)
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Kilroy -

Don't worry, I am ignoring him.

I am a Senior Designer - ICE. Instrumentation & Controls/Electrical. The day job for nearing on 17 years has been wiring solenoids to valves and running sensors back to a controller like a PLC or DCS system. It is basically robotics or in the smallest way a paintball gun. Except I normally do powerplants and refineries, and it is far more complicated.

So, relative to my experience, paintball guns are a small job. I normally have an EE or and IE on tap, along with a ME and CE I work with, though they generally work for me. He seems young compared to most I work with, might be part of the 'passion'. Plus I was the top Racegun Tech, and wrote the how-to-setup-and-time your gun manual for most electric cockers. That was over 10 years ago. My first electro gun was a setup that cycled the bolt 50cps without a problem. That was nearing on 14 years ago. I know how to push limits on a gun and what the dynamics are.

I did most of those tests, it is really asinine that he suggests both I didn't do them or that I don't understand. So, I am ignoring him like the moderators have suggested. I guess he has been kicked off of 2 other forums, and I think they said he also stalked somebody down, drove a couple states over to harass him?

So, yeah, going to just ignore him from now on. Not worried about it. Doesn't even get under my skin, he is embarrassing himself. Sad, seems like a smart guy. Oh well.
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:06 AM   #856 (permalink)
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Josh, not to sound like a brown noser but I have got to say that as a student engineer (Mechanical/ Automation and Controls), you continue to impress me! I love the gun design and hope that I'll eventually be making something as equally badass and eloquent!
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Old 11-13-2013, 11:40 AM   #857 (permalink)
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It won't come with a conversion kit for mech or pump - you can pick up the kit for mech, it will drop in.

The pump will be it's own beast, since the patent covers a wide range of options one of those is really well suited for pump. Just tiny. It makes a lot of sense to make the pump its own platform. But one that can be converted to mech or electric.
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:53 PM   #858 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by masternater1217 View Post
Josh, not to sound like a brown noser but I have got to say that as a student engineer (Mechanical/ Automation and Controls), you continue to impress me! I love the gun design and hope that I'll eventually be making something as equally badass and eloquent!
Right there with you =p

It's crazy how much you learn from just talking to people about what they do and how they plan on accomplishing their design goals.

Once everything is released, I cannot wait to get a single trigger mech torque.. <3
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Old 11-13-2013, 02:23 PM   #859 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by P0E View Post
tl;dr?

Sorry to keep you anxiously waiting. Life's priorities you know.



The mindset.



To make clear..
You're saying evidence in support of your assumptions is entirely limited to the fact you could not hear a difference when dry firing up to 42cps?!



Only way to know that is if you actually used a pressure sensor and graphed it, but based on the "so it would be fine at 25bps" comment, I have to assume you never measured this with paint!? ..if even without.

"60cps reg that vents at mach 2.5" is like saying "1000mpg wheel that free falls at 200MPH". There are so many assumptions and missing variables in that statement, I would be ashamed to post it. It's simply bombastic.




There you go again mixing "drop off","with paint" and "cps". Please stop beating around the bush and tell us what you actually tested and how. It sounds like you simply fired a bunch of balls while trying to get the thing to ..........
To make it simple: you can see velocity drops just by firing the gun on a target.
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:51 AM   #860 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by J4 Paintball View Post
It won't come with a conversion kit for mech or pump - you can pick up the kit for mech, it will drop in.

The pump will be it's own beast, since the patent covers a wide range of options one of those is really well suited for pump. Just tiny. It makes a lot of sense to make the pump its own platform. But one that can be converted to mech or electric.
WOO WOO

This is what paintball is about, new ideas and growing the sport.
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