General

[Ir0nExpress]

This article kinda makes me take a look at my C02 tank from a NIB P68-At that I got a while back, makes me wonder if I should use it.

However, I still wonder how old this CO2 tank was. If it really was that old, I guess CO2 tanks are literally falling apart after all these years of use. Or like everyone else said, someone installed something improperly.

[HP_Lovecraft]

Originally Posted by SHAG

Smart parts told my local dealer that you don't need loctite for the reg and bottle assemblies of the new Ion packages. He asked what should the torque spec, the tech on the phone didn't know what the spec was. He is going to loctite them in and make sure the bottles are snug when he sells them.

The Catalina website says around 50lbs "dry". Its not exactly a secret. You should not use loc-tight on the threads.

The Paintball Dangers Website does have some honesty regarding the situation, even though the site is anti-paintball.

Prior to the incident which caused the death of Colette Contois, the C02 cylinder valve had been removed and reinstalled by a 15-year-old boy in order to place an anti-siphon device in the cylinder. Following the Contois incident, the pinhole was found to be blocked by the thread adhesive used in either the original assembly of the valve to the cylinder or during installation of the anti-siphon device.

Why wasnt the 15-year old above sued? Oh, I guess he didn't have 8 million dollars.

I've installed many, many siphon valves in my life. I've always followed the CATALINA recommending for "dry" torque. I will never thread-lock since I value my own life.

[Drum]

Likely he was sued, Nick. Well, in the form of his parents anyway. But as you suggest, his family neither had money worth recovering, nor were they worthy of the headlines.

D.

[HP_Lovecraft]

Originally Posted by Drum

But as you suggest, his family neither had money worth recovering, nor were they worthy of the headlines.
D.

I'm not trying to sound like I'm picking on lawyers...

Its just a bit frustrating to read that someone was killed because thread-lock was used on a tank, then to read about the poor womens husband who has gone on a crusade to FORCE other companies to use thread-lock.

It makes me want to pull my hair out... if I had any.

nick

[Drum]

Medicine, nor science, not even lawyers will ever do much to change the number or quality of the people who die from stupidity every day.

Deadly stupidity is an all too common trait among we Humans.

[HP_Lovecraft]

So true.

I can remember back in college when we would spray our socks with lighter fluid, light them on fire, and then run around really quick so we didn't get burned.

[Drum]

We used to do that with flaming tennis balls, which we would then bat about our dorm rooms. I think we called that game "Turboball" or something.

Generally used to require the use of the school's fire extinguishers to "end" the game.

D.

[SHAG]

Hi,

HP interesting you must mention the fact that it is not a secret about torque specs. Apparently, the manufacturers or suppliers of the products don't know this. Having a TSR tell you that just make it tight does not absolve you from any liabilities down the road. I am sure our own resident legal counsel on MCB could argue 100 different ways. That is my point. I never seen any specs myself outside for hardware torque. Getting any kind of spec from the manufacturer is some kind of Houdini trick. Thanks for pointing out the Catalina web site that is the first time I have seen specs on any tank manufacturer web site.

My dealer is very cautious about HP air. He will not service any HP tank in shop. They are just sent right back to the manufacturer. As he puts it, it is not my *** on the line. That's why he is cautious with the Ion with HP tank deal. He does not want to see his customers get hurt due to faulty equipment.

As for thread lock, I have seen a number of tanks come with it applied. The only time I have seen no thread locker was HPA reg connections. I know my dealer does not install valves on tanks. He tried several occasions to purchase tanks only from NPS to install the ACI quick repair seat valves and they would not sell them without a valve installed. Besides he is seeing less sales for CO2 now he has the compressor. It is taking a while for people to convert over but they are happy when they do.

Later,
shaggy

[Mr. Furious]

Originally Posted by HP_Lovecraft

I understand what you are saying.

My point was that WAY BACK in 1990, someone died, and the industry did change, and since then all valves have had that safety vent to prevent the tanks from shooting off like rockets.

I've actually seen a few 7oz tanks shoot off like rockets. Every single one was made before 1990 (and all were Tippmann pin-valves).

The guy who lost his wife is commendable for wanting to make sure we are all playing with safe equipment, but I do not see what will change? The change already happened back in 1990.

The problem was not the equipment, but an incorrectly installed anti-siphon that accidentally bypassed that safety vent.

Back in the early 90s is when paintball masks also started becomming standardized. If a modern player modifies his masks so that it bypasses its safety features (ie removes facemask), and then gets hurt, I don't think that would require a change to the mask. The mask itself is already safe.

I sympathize with the man for his loss. I meant to imply that I think his LAWYERS were playing the "follow the money" game, and perhaps manipulating his emotions for there benefit

nick

I understand what you're saying. Obviously the changes made 17 years ago and the recommendations that came along with those changes have made a difference but in at least a few cases the recommendations are being ignored and things like this happen. What I meant was that maybe the actions this person is taking will get the word out and raise awareness(as this thread has for me) to prevent future tragedies. I remember building anti-siphon bottles back in 2000. At Smart Parts recommendation I used gobs and gobs of red loctite on the valve threads. Obviously this was after the changes made in the early 1990's but Smart Parts told me to install their anti-siphon on/off bottle valves with tons of red loctite. I can't remember if it was a printed instruction sheet or on the phone with the guy who sold me the kits but I know I was informed to use it.

[Tallen702]

I find it interesting that they only mention the hydrostatic testing rule with 20oz CO2 tanks and not with everything larger than 2" in diameter. We used to read every single hydro date on every single tank that came through our door when I worked as a tech. If it was out of date, I gave the user two options. They could either send it in for hydro (which we would do for them, they only paid what we paid for the hydro, no mark-up) or we could destroy it for them. With CO2 tanks, most people chose the latter. I got some good use out of the drill press those 4 years.