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Old 12-17-2013, 11:24 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertT1 View Post
That's unfortunate. I don't buy much in the way of new stuff, but losing a somewhat local PB business is rarely a good thing.
Yup it sucks nice shop too. 10% off on everything right now she has some nice stuff and lots of it I spent $38 I'm from California just working in AZ for a week but I can't stay away from pb stores
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Old 12-18-2013, 12:43 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I read the article. While interesting I wonder of its relevance.

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Originally Posted by article
"This is something we do for enjoyment. Our measure of success isn't the money side - our measurement of success is if we have people coming out having a good time," said Bussy.
The business, if it is run as such, has managed to weather the storm and continue through recession. That is a sign of good management but I don't see it as something to get excited about beyond that particular business
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Old 12-18-2013, 01:16 PM   #13 (permalink)
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A pinball arcade recently opened in Tucson. The owners both work for the same company as I do and say they didn't do it for the money. I believe them, since I know they do alright at their day jobs. They have ~25 machines and wanted to have people exposed to playing them. They rented a garage building downtown right off the trendy/hippy/hipster street and are only open F/Sat/Sun evenings. They've had a ton of people come in and just started doing tournaments. I played in the first one and it was a lot of fun.

Anyway, I understand how something can be successful and still not be able to support a family from the earnings side. Paintball to pinball, it's possible.
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Old 12-18-2013, 05:45 PM   #14 (permalink)
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APG is a great place to play! this is their 3rd and final location , best by far in MS.
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Old 12-18-2013, 06:37 PM   #15 (permalink)
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The problem becomes trying to consider what is a successful business. If they are doing what they want to and are comfortable with the money they are losing, making, or not making than it is successful FOR THEM. That does not mean it is successful as a business.

Let me use my friend as an example. He runs a business that he greatly enjoys. It gives him a little extra money but allows him to socialize with people he otherwise would not. As badly introverted as I am he is the opposite - an extreme people person. He has booked events out past most of his competitors who run actually businesses in the field he plays in. He runs a legitimate business (records, insurance, taxes, etc.) but neglects to consider costs. One of his competitors, likely annoyed, offered to buy him out so he came to me and we sat down to discuss numbers.

The question became how to value his business beyond the assets (for sake of informational security I am going to input some numbers that are not actual). We first determined the value of his assets to be about $5,000. His profits last year were $8,000. Considering it was part time and had relatively low and fixed overhead I suggested his multiplier might start high (usually a business is worth, in addition to assets, between 1 and 4 times its yearly profit with most falling between 2 and 3). I suggested we start with a multiplier of 5 and he value the business at $45,000 (5 x $8,000 + $5,000 in assets).

Then we dug a little deeper and I finally looked at him and had a conversation about "profit". Turns out he had never paid himself. He works about 15 hours a week. At $10 an hour that comes out to $150 a week or $7,800 a year. There was an even bigger issue: the work he did, his skills, special licensing, and track record makes his value at a lot more than $10 an hour. In the end his business is worth nothing as a business because if you took these factors into account it would be losing money. Indeed its only value is in its assets. Now we can argue about certain aspects of assets such as customer base and other things but I think the issue is illustrated

Its unreasonable to call a business "successful" from a business stand point unless it would be making money if the owners were paid the prevailing rate for the work they do in it. Most small business owners (and many management employees even) take a wage that is less than they could get on the open market. When valuing a business these underpaid employees must be taken into account.

Luckily for us players many paintball field owners are running the business for reasons other than financial.
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"Use peaceful means where they are appropriate; but where they are not appropriate, do not hesitate to resort to more forceful" Thupten Gyatso (the Dalai Lama, 1932)

"It is not the will to win that matters - everyone has that. It's the will to prepare to win that matters" Coach Paul 'Bear' Bryant.

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Old 12-18-2013, 07:27 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
However, from a business standpoint, I would be concerned about this statement, "This is something we do for enjoyment. Our measure of success isn't the money side - our measurement of success is if we have people coming out having a good time". I mean I sort of understand that (I myself run a field and make much considerably less money I could doing other work), but a business should make money, otherwise it won't sustain itself. Eventually people get tired of working for free or very little and then all of a sudden, the business is no longer there, even though it seemed to be well attended while it was open.
That's a direct quote they gave to a news reporter writing a story about their field.
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Old 12-19-2013, 10:16 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lohman446 View Post
The problem becomes trying to consider what is a successful business. If they are doing what they want to and are comfortable with the money they are losing, making, or not making than it is successful FOR THEM. That does not mean it is successful as a business.

Let me use my friend as an example. He runs a business that he greatly enjoys. It gives him a little extra money but allows him to socialize with people he otherwise would not. As badly introverted as I am he is the opposite - an extreme people person. He has booked events out past most of his competitors who run actually businesses in the field he plays in. He runs a legitimate business (records, insurance, taxes, etc.) but neglects to consider costs. One of his competitors, likely annoyed, offered to buy him out so he came to me and we sat down to discuss numbers.

The question became how to value his business beyond the assets (for sake of informational security I am going to input some numbers that are not actual). We first determined the value of his assets to be about $5,000. His profits last year were $8,000. Considering it was part time and had relatively low and fixed overhead I suggested his multiplier might start high (usually a business is worth, in addition to assets, between 1 and 4 times its yearly profit with most falling between 2 and 3). I suggested we start with a multiplier of 5 and he value the business at $45,000 (5 x $8,000 + $5,000 in assets).

Then we dug a little deeper and I finally looked at him and had a conversation about "profit". Turns out he had never paid himself. He works about 15 hours a week. At $10 an hour that comes out to $150 a week or $7,800 a year. There was an even bigger issue: the work he did, his skills, special licensing, and track record makes his value at a lot more than $10 an hour. In the end his business is worth nothing as a business because if you took these factors into account it would be losing money. Indeed its only value is in its assets. Now we can argue about certain aspects of assets such as customer base and other things but I think the issue is illustrated

Its unreasonable to call a business "successful" from a business stand point unless it would be making money if the owners were paid the prevailing rate for the work they do in it. Most small business owners (and many management employees even) take a wage that is less than they could get on the open market. When valuing a business these underpaid employees must be taken into account.

Luckily for us players many paintball field owners are running the business for reasons other than financial.
Good post. I think the vast majority of paintball businesses fall into this category, as do many other businesses that are based around hobbies. There are always "entrepreneurs" willing to enter the market because it would be a cool business to be in, rather than a business that will make any real money. Those people are really just buying themselves jobs and those jobs are in reality often underpaid.

Yes, players are lucky that there are so many of them around because in reality, those field owners are subsidizing their play.
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