General

[Ronin]

Originally Posted by RealtorTommy

I like the Limit of paint....simple......

One alternate idea to the per-player paint limit would be a per-TEAM paint limit.

[drg]

Originally Posted by Ronin

One alternate idea to the per-player paint limit would be a per-TEAM paint limit.

OSC is ahead of its time, then, eh? Which is ironic, I suppose.

[Tallen702]

Originally Posted by JKR

What earth-shattering innovation has hit soccer, football, running, baseball, basketball, tennis, rugby, shot put, etc, etc?

None really...that is the hallmark of true sport in my opinion. Anything that relies so heavily on technology rather than human potential isn't elevated to sport. For that reason, I consider paintball a game and always have. I and many others don't consider it a sport. I love paintball, don't get me wrong, but it will never be elevated to olympic status in it's current form. Someone else mentioned that above - about stock class being the only olympic-worthy variant of paintball.

There have been staggering innovations that have caused every bit as much controversy in Soccer, Football, Baseball, Basketball, and Tennis since their inception.

One only needs to look to the last world cup to see that with soccer. The new "seamless" ball was seen as a way to level the playing field between the scoring "gods" of the striker position and the goalies.

Football has been nothing but innovation from the beginning. Everything from ball-shape to the materials used to keep players safe have been radically changed from day one. Average High School QB's can rocket a modern football down field 50-75 yards. no problem. Let's see them do that with an older one. Not to mention the advent of all the other gear they use. From cleats to instant on-field review of the previous plays. Football of all the sports you mention has the most ongoing innovation out there.

Basketball. Did you know that the original incarnation of the game didn't allow for dribbling? Players couldn't move once they had the ball, they couldn't even pivot to pass it. It was like a game of ultimate frisbee without the hippies. Now you have dribbling, the 1 1/2 step rule for traveling, slam dunks, devoted courts, spring loaded baskets, a million different types of shoes, etc etc. Allowing dribbling, slam dunks, and small amounts of traveling were all done to make the game move faster, make it more interesting, and to make it more appealing to more people. The same way that it can be argued that the faster pace and markers of PSP/Xball/Millennium series paintball is geared to a much higher-energy game.

Don't even get me started on baseball. I find it to be the most boring game in the world to watch due to the slow pace of the game. I think that aluminum bats, farther back walls, and everything else that has been ruled out of the game would probably make it at least more fun to watch. If I wanted to see someone standing on a mound for 5 minutes, chewing tobacco, and looking like they have stomach distress while waiting to throw a freaking ball, I'd go to a farm and watch a cow chewing cud. It's about as exciting....

Tennis was originally played on grass courts with balls made of feathers and leather with wooden racquettes that were strung with horse-hair or catgut. There is only so much innovation you can achieve given the simple rules and the simple mechanics of the racquette and ball, but what there is to be innovated has. Graphite heads, high tensile strings, latex and felt balls, clay courts. All of these things have changed the game a lot from it's early days.

All of the sports you mention are centered around basic elements in their play. They use basic human force to power the whole thing. Paintball uses machines. Anytime you have a machine involved in the sport, innovation and technology will be king. If you want to take the tech out of paintball, I'd suggest forming a sling-shot league.

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by Ronin

One alternate idea to the per-player paint limit would be a per-TEAM paint limit.

It would really make for a much more interesting game. Not only would it re-enforce the need for the skill of accuracy in snap shooting as well as all other skills players already have, but it would introduce tactics like how to get the other team to waste their paint. It would change the game radically, making for a much more interesting game to play and probably just as importantly, to watch.

[DCB]

That is the only way we play in pump tournaments.

Even when we played in a semi tournament I did not use but about half a bag of paint... for the whole tournament including the finals... we won the whole thing.

Limited paint all the way..
LPPC / Limited Paint Players Club

Peace

[Robertsr]

The money is in the paint guys. Limited paint is fun. Limited paint takes skill. Limited paint will never be a valid money-making tourney format because the money is in the paint.

[Mr. Furious]

Originally Posted by Robertsr

The money is in the paint guys. Limited paint is fun. Limited paint takes skill. Limited paint will never be a valid money-making tourney format because the money is in the paint.

QFT! Paintball is in a very dangerous situation at the moment. Paint is all that's keeping the local fields alive so if they can't sell as much paint, they will have to raise prices on everything else like entry fees, air fills and anything on the shelves. History has already shown that people will spend money on paint at the field but don't like to pay high prices to get on the field. Psychologically it's easier to pay more money for a tangible item(paint) than it is to pay for entry to a paintball field.

My local field started out charging $10 a day including air. Dropped it to $5. Dropped it to $2 and then finally made it free open play every sunday. Lots of people asked for some weekday evenings during the summer and the demand was high enough for the field to offer it. Due to it taking up a reservation slot and increasing the ref's payroll they tried to charge $5 per person for those evenings that they had asked for. It fell flat before it ever got started. That's how narrow the margin is between an open field and some vacant acreage. If limited paint became a reality, tourney entry would be ridiculously expensive(so no one would participate) or the limited paint the players did buy would be ridiculously expensive(so no one would participate).

Sure, pump tournies, hopper ball tournies, rental gear tournies and the like are a lot of fun but I guarantee the field owner is gnashing his teeth the whole day knowing he's losing money every minute the pumps are on the field.

Big paintball is all about lots of paint in the air, the constant cacophony of shouts, paintguns firing and paint striking bunkers and those big moves in a hail of paint. It's fun to watch and it's marketable. Pump tourneys and limited paint events are nice and will help bring newer players into the tourney environment but they are not very interesting to watch and are not very marketable. If there are too many of them, paintall will suffer and you'll see changes in the places you play that you will not like. Limited paint is not going to help paintball, it will drive it back to the woods behind your buddy's uncle's house. The pump scene is growing and that's awesome but selling 100 paintballs to a player in a day vs. 2000 is not what a paintball field owner considers good for the field. I guess if you want to get back to the days of paint being fifty cents or a buck a ball then you can hope all the big paintwasters go away but understand that a field has to make a certain amount of money regardless if they make it by high volume at low prices or low volume at high prices.

Tournament paintball trickles down to the rec field and open days so what goes there will probably wind up on your open days. If limited paint became a reality at the top, you may not have anyplace to play at the bottom.

[Robertsr]

I disagree that limited paint and pump games aren't any fun to watch. For those of us who value those skills, they are much more fun to watch than the firehose-fests that I don't even waste my time viewing.

However, they don't make money.

[JKR]

Originally Posted by Robertsr

I disagree that limited paint and pump games aren't any fun to watch. For those of us who value those skills, they are much more fun to watch than the firehose-fests that I don't even waste my time viewing.

I agree - much more movement and intensity in pump/stock class games than in the tourney 'ball I have watched.

Oh and Mr. Furious, if you hear about a woodsball game behind your buddy's uncle's house, give me a PM. Those are often the best games around!

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by Mr. Furious

QFT! Paintball is in a very dangerous situation at the moment. Paint is all that's keeping the local fields alive so if they can't sell as much paint, they will have to raise prices on everything else like entry fees, air fills and anything on the shelves. History has already shown that people will spend money on paint at the field but don't like to pay high prices to get on the field. Psychologically it's easier to pay more money for a tangible item(paint) than it is to pay for entry to a paintball field.

My local field started out charging $10 a day including air. Dropped it to $5. Dropped it to $2 and then finally made it free open play every sunday. Lots of people asked for some weekday evenings during the summer and the demand was high enough for the field to offer it. Due to it taking up a reservation slot and increasing the ref's payroll they tried to charge $5 per person for those evenings that they had asked for. It fell flat before it ever got started. That's how narrow the margin is between an open field and some vacant acreage. If limited paint became a reality, tourney entry would be ridiculously expensive(so no one would participate) or the limited paint the players did buy would be ridiculously expensive(so no one would participate).

There is very little money in paint now for most fields. Most fields make more on field fees from a player than they do selling them a case of paint today. If the fields around you are giving paintball away, then that is a localized situation, certainly not a national or international one. If they are needing to charge nothing to keep the players out of the woods, then I would hazard a guess that the fields are crap and have little to offer the paying customer.

I’m not sure why you think a tournament would be more expensive if it were limited paint. You have stated yourself that a field needs to make a certain amount of money. The prices of the entry and tournament would just be adjusted accordingly, so that the field would make a profit (hopefully). In some ways, it would be better, because you would know your exact cost for the tourney ahead of time, there would be no variables, unless a team makes it into the finals. But even that could be worked into the costs so that the teams in the finals would be “given” the allotted paintballs to play in the finals. It would sort of be an extra reward for making the finals.

Originally Posted by Mr. Furious

Sure, pump tournies, hopper ball tournies, rental gear tournies and the like are a lot of fun but I guarantee the field owner is gnashing his teeth the whole day knowing he's losing money every minute the pumps are on the field.

Big paintball is all about lots of paint in the air, the constant cacophony of shouts, paintguns firing and paint striking bunkers and those big moves in a hail of paint. It's fun to watch and it's marketable

Actually much of this thread has been about how paintball has become less marketable due to the increase in paintball consumption. You are thinking the way most in the industry were thinking 10 years ago and what got us here (and what, for the most part, is causing the problems in the industry).

Originally Posted by Mr. Furious

Pump tourneys and limited paint events are nice and will help bring newer players into the tourney environment but they are not very interesting to watch and are not very marketable. If there are too many of them, paintall will suffer and you'll see changes in the places you play that you will not like. Limited paint is not going to help paintball, it will drive it back to the woods behind your buddy's uncle's house. The pump scene is growing and that's awesome but selling 100 paintballs to a player in a day vs. 2000 is not what a paintball field owner considers good for the field. I guess if you want to get back to the days of paint being fifty cents or a buck a ball then you can hope all the big paintwasters go away but understand that a field has to make a certain amount of money regardless if they make it by high volume at low prices or low volume at high prices.

Tournament paintball trickles down to the rec field and open days so what goes there will probably wind up on your open days. If limited paint became a reality at the top, you may not have anyplace to play at the bottom.

I’ve been toying with the idea of putting a limit on our customers paint purchases (we’re a rec. field) at probably 1,000 paintballs. We get very few that shoot that many, so it wouldn’t really be that big of a deal. It really bothers me when guys are shooting 1,500 or 2,000 paintballs and everyone else is shooting between 300 and 700.