General

[Raion]

if you can run through lanes, whats the point of back guys then? all the players can't play speedball anymore I guess ..lol.

Actually , shooting lanes is a key part of speed ball. It not only does like a "supressive" fire effect but it helps get people out ( like running through a lane). The other main purpose it serves is that it will help front guys move. A backman will shoot at a player who is shooting at a front man. This get's the opponet to dunk in their bunker so the front guy can move. So what do I think will happen? Well I think that games will be getting closer, as in players closer on the field. I think more bunkering will happen because of this. In my opinon I don't think that is very good for the sport.

Most people on MCB don't even play speedball ..and im sure even fewer actually play PSP... why do you guys care about what PSP does?

[Mr. Furious]

Originally Posted by Raion

if you can run through lanes, whats the point of back guys then? all the players can't play speedball anymore I guess ..lol.

Actually , shooting lanes is a key part of speed ball. It not only does like a "supressive" fire effect but it helps get people out ( like running through a lane). The other main purpose it serves is that it will help front guys move. A backman will shoot at a player who is shooting at a front man. This get's the opponet to dunk in their bunker so the front guy can move. So what do I think will happen? Well I think that games will be getting closer, as in players closer on the field. I think more bunkering will happen because of this. In my opinon I don't think that is very good for the sport.

Most people on MCB don't even play speedball ..and im sure even fewer actually play PSP... why do you guys care about what PSP does?

How long have you been playing paintball? I only ask because I've been shooting "lanes" and taking out people on the move since I started playing with my Tippmann Carbine, then mechanical autococker and then '99 Shocker on up to the uber markers of today. If you really believe suppressive fire, hitting someone on the move and value of a backman is negated by removing 2BPS or ramping from the game then you need to take some time to learn how to play paintball because you are missing many of the core skills of gun handling and will be as helpless as a babe in the woods if they ever really put limits on ROF of electronic markers.

As far as bunkering happening more or being less safe without ramping or with slower rates of fire you're looking at that all wrong. A bunker run with a semi marker is much safer because the player on the run cannot maintain the same rate of fire while running that he can while standing still. When you put ramping into the mix it's easy for someone to maintain the max rate of fire while making a bunker move and really hurt someone.

Perhaps you are too young to really play speedball without all the mechanical and electronic crutches that paintball manufacturers provide to players these days. I think you are shortchanging yourself and setting yourself up for a big fall if they ever really decide to put restrictions on paintball equipment for safety's sake and to make the game more skill based than money based.

[Raion]

Originally Posted by Mr. Furious

How long have you been playing paintball? I only ask because I've been shooting "lanes" and taking out people on the move since I started playing with my Tippmann Carbine, then mechanical autococker and then '99 Shocker on up to the uber markers of today. If you really believe suppressive fire, hitting someone on the move and value of a backman is negated by removing 2BPS or ramping from the game then you need to take some time to learn how to play paintball because you are missing many of the core skills of gun handling and will be as helpless as a babe in the woods if they ever really put limits on ROF of electronic markers.

As far as bunkering happening more or being less safe without ramping or with slower rates of fire you're looking at that all wrong. A bunker run with a semi marker is much safer because the player on the run cannot maintain the same rate of fire while running that he can while standing still. When you put ramping into the mix it's easy for someone to maintain the max rate of fire while making a bunker move and really hurt someone.

Perhaps you are too young to really play speedball without all the mechanical and electronic crutches that paintball manufacturers provide to players these days. I think you are shortchanging yourself and setting yourself up for a big fall if they ever really decide to put restrictions on paintball equipment for safety's sake and to make the game more skill based than money based.

I play in semi my friend. I don't think I'd be a "helpless babe" in the woods either .. bet you don't have one of these:



Not bad for a girl who is "too young" to play paintball ..especially it cause it was those guys shooting old cockers AND highends that I was getting out ... and I was shooting an old 98 that day ..in the woods

You asked why people are mad about the change and little as 2 bps is, it will make some amount of change to the game.

Also PSP will stay in the mode it is , just less bps. So they will be doing full auto after 3 trigger pulls ... just like before the bps change. As far as running and less bps, that may be true, but have u watched an NPPL match? They are semi only and still shoot mighty fast while running.

edit: oh yeh, I've been playing about 6 yrs now cause you asked. Just cause you have been playing since the dawn of time doesn't make you a better player ... just means you have been playing a long time than I. You could be a very good player or you could totally suck ... I don't know. What we know that is that you have been playing longer than me. Time playing doesn't really mean anything.

[Mr. Furious]

Originally Posted by Raion

I play in semi my friend. I don't think I'd be a "helpless babe" in the woods either .. bet you don't have one of these:

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/4135/dscn0033jm0.jpg

Not bad for a girl who is "too young" to play paintball ..especially it cause it was those guys shooting old cockers AND highends that I was getting out ... and I was shooting an old 98 that day ..in the woods

You asked why people are mad about the change and little as 2 bps is, it will make some amount of change to the game.

Also PSP will stay in the mode it is , just less bps. So they will be doing full auto after 3 trigger pulls ... just like before the bps change. As far as running and less bps, that may be true, but have u watched an NPPL match? They are semi only and still shoot mighty fast while running.

edit: oh yeh, I've been playing about 6 yrs now cause you asked. Just cause you have been playing since the dawn of time doesn't make you a better player ... just means you have been playing a long time than I. You could be a very good player or you could totally suck ... I don't know. What we know that is that you have been playing longer than me. Time playing doesn't really mean anything.

Based on your first post, you sounded as if the old people didn't understand about suppressive fire, laning and the importance of a back player because we don't have the knowledge or skill to compete today. I was just letting you know that all that stuff has been part of the game and used effectively even when the max BPS was in the neighborhood of 8. You also made it sound as if you felt that ramping at a reduced BPS cap was going to make wholesale changes to the way the game is played and that is simply not the case. I wasn't trying to insult you, I was simply trying to find out how long you had been playing to understand why you made the statements you did. You sounded like a player who thinks they know it all and feels compelled to help out all us poor folks who are too stupid to understand the different facets of the game and that is a classic sign of a new player who has been around enough to think they know it all but are not mature enough to realize that they don't. Maybe that's not you but that's sure how your post read to me. I never said you were too young to play paintball. I know some great players that are not even old enough for a driver's license. I treat them with respect and they do the same to me. Experience and maturity are different things and can exist independently of each other I guess.

You made a generalization about "most people on MCB" not playing speedball and that is not accurate. I was trying to clear that up.

NPPL unlimited semi is so fast because most of those guns have illegal modes in them. That's why this discussion has dealt so heavily with an allowed enhanced mode(ramping) being easier to control and police than a disallowed enhanced modes(cheater boards) that are basically impossible to control and police.

It's good to have confidence in yourself and be proud of your accomplishments but it's hard for others to respect someone who has little respect for the experience and skill of others and thinks less of them simply because of their age.

This is the part where you quote me and put a couple more of those old guy smiley's in your reply. Those are awesome.

[sdawg]

Can we get back to bashing agglets on PBN, not each other on MCB?

[Robertsr]

Mark it up to day after new year's hangover.

[Raion]

Originally Posted by Mr. Furious

Based on your first post, you sounded as if the old people didn't understand about suppressive fire, laning and the importance of a back player because we don't have the knowledge or skill to compete today. I was just letting you know that all that stuff has been part of the game and used effectively even when the max BPS was in the neighborhood of 8. You also made it sound as if you felt that ramping at a reduced BPS cap was going to make wholesale changes to the way the game is played and that is simply not the case. I wasn't trying to insult you, I was simply trying to find out how long you had been playing to understand why you made the statements you did. You sounded like a player who thinks they know it all and feels compelled to help out all us poor folks who are too stupid to understand the different facets of the game and that is a classic sign of a new player who has been around enough to think they know it all but are not mature enough to realize that they don't. Maybe that's not you but that's sure how your post read to me. I never said you were too young to play paintball. I know some great players that are not even old enough for a driver's license. I treat them with respect and they do the same to me. Experience and maturity are different things and can exist independently of each other I guess.

You made a generalization about "most people on MCB" not playing speedball and that is not accurate. I was trying to clear that up.

NPPL unlimited semi is so fast because most of those guns have illegal modes in them. That's why this discussion has dealt so heavily with an allowed enhanced mode(ramping) being easier to control and police than a disallowed enhanced modes(cheater boards) that are basically impossible to control and police.

It's good to have confidence in yourself and be proud of your accomplishments but it's hard for others to respect someone who has little respect for the experience and skill of others and thinks less of them simply because of their age.

This is the part where you quote me and put a couple more of those old guy smiley's in your reply. Those are awesome.

Well, playing speed ball then and now is different too. I know a lot of people don't like speedball or some of the new generation things that go with paintball (like bing agg) so trying to say this is what back guys do is only a natural reaction, trying to share a part of paintball that Im not sure people have actually researched. It seems like some people here do think they know all ... just cause they are or don't like speedball cause it's different. That's not fair. it's just like you said : "It's good to have confidence in yourself and be proud of your accomplishments but it's hard for others to respect someone who has little respect for the experience and skill of others and thinks less of them simply because of their age."

As far as NPPL, not everyone who plays speed ball cheats. I'm trying out for a popular all female team soon that plays D2 NPPL, and I know they will want me to do semi w/o cheating of course for obvious reasons.

Yes I quoted you ... and I did stick a few in there ... cause they are funny

[Mr. Furious]

Originally Posted by Raion

Well, playing speed ball then and now is different too. I know a lot of people don't like speedball or some of the new generation things that go with paintball (like bing agg) so trying to say this is what back guys do is only a natural reaction, trying to share a part of paintball that Im not sure people have actually researched. It seems like some people here do think they know all ... just cause they are or don't like speedball cause it's different. That's not fair. it's just like you said : "It's good to have confidence in yourself and be proud of your accomplishments but it's hard for others to respect someone who has little respect for the experience and skill of others and thinks less of them simply because of their age."

As far as NPPL, not everyone who plays speed ball cheats. I'm trying out for a popular all female team soon that plays D2 NPPL, and I know they will want me to do semi w/o cheating of course for obvious reasons.

Yes I quoted you ... and I did stick a few in there ... cause they are funny

I guess I'm just jealous. I need a "Baby New Year" smiley(with the big ears and top hat from the Rudolph special) so I can compete.

I don't really think speedball is much different since the 90's. There is more paint in the air per player but there are also less players on the field than before so I think it all comes out in the wash. I have never been in a paintball game in a speedball type setting where we didn't have players shooting lanes and trying to get the easy elimination on the break. Even playing outlaw in the woods when I first started had a lot of guns in the air off the break. The guns are faster today but I really believe the shooting skills have declined. Evidence for my case is the guys who rock the tournament on Saturday ramping at 15 but can't do squat on Sunday open play because they have to go back to semi. Becoming used to the crutch of a ramping gun really hurts you when that crutch disappears or the amount of help it gives you is decreased. That's why lots of the folks on PBN are losing their minds over this. They can't comprehend shooting a slower gun and are seriously afraid they will suck because they have never shot anything but a ramping electro. Some of them will suck, too. This does not apply to everyone. Some will actually get better because they will work harder on their gun handling skills. Some will realize that 2 balls one way other is not going to impact the game that much. Others will give up and play somewhere else.

I didn't mention it earlier but the reason we all care about what the PSP and NPPL does is that those rules trickle down to our local fields on tournament days so it ultimately affects us even if we have no interest in watching, playing in or otherwise supporting those series.

I agree that not everyone who plays in the big series cheats. But I will say that cheating is much more prevalent than anyone will admit. The team I used to play on got sponsored by Smart Parts the same year I left. They got a bunch of the previous year's All American team Shockers. The things those guns would do in the cheater modes were incredible(and certainly not semi) and the ways in which the cheater modes were hidden were ingenious. It happens in the big series and will probably continue.

Good luck on your team tryout and stick to your convictions about cheating to bring some honor to the field.

Finally, sorry for sounding like a jerk in my first post. I reread it later and it didn't sound like I wanted it to. I'm sick as Hell today (not hung over thank you!) and didn't have my normal amount of sweetness and love in my posts this morning.

[Raion]

It's okay.

My boyfriend is sick too (bgreywolf on MCB) so I have to tend to him today. I slept in the other room so he could get better sleep (and I won't get sick !)

You should take a look at what some guys are posting in the psp rof change thread on nation. A lot of people are jsut going to do semi. A lot see the difference in practice with only 13 bps (more aggressive play like i said.) Only time will tell what will happen. I am sure I will see it first hand when I go to some of the events.

[Mr. Furious]

Originally Posted by Raion

It's okay.

My boyfriend is sick too (bgreywolf on MCB) so I have to tend to him today. I slept in the other room so he could get better sleep (and I won't get sick !)

You should take a look at what some guys are posting in the psp rof change thread on nation. A lot of people are jsut going to do semi. A lot see the difference in practice with only 13 bps (more aggressive play like i said.) Only time will tell what will happen. I am sure I will see it first hand when I go to some of the events.

I followed the PBN thread until I felt my IQ begining to drop.

They act like it's the end of the world but most really have no idea why they think that. They just know that less BPS MUST be bad because more BPS is all they've ever been taught. Buy this gun for more BPS. Get that trigger for more BPS. Don't forget the upgrade board for more BPS. And now that your marker can cycle 30 times per second buy this hopper and all these hopper upgrades to match it. A player who can shoot can overcome anything and 2 or even 5 BPS less will cause them to change the way they play but not change the outcome of the games. I played with ramping when I practice against the local field's team and other tourney guys. I find it to be wasteful but I like the easily sustainable rate of fire. I plan to drop it to 10BPS and see if it really impacts me that much. Heck, last week was the first time I ever used ramping since I played with a Shocker Turbo and while it was fun I found far more paint going downfield with no better results than when I shot in semi so many weeks before. I turned on ramping to be on a level field with the other players but I found that ramping did not enhance my game, it just wasted my paint. I'm no great shakes as a paintball player but I can handle a gun and always have been able to regardless of what type it was. I'm on the fence about ramping. I'll give it 1 or 2 weeks at 10 BPS and then I'll probably just switch back to semi.

Anyway, back to PBN: Read the posts from the guys who are truly knowledgable and you'll see that far too big of a deal is being made of all this by the crybabies who think the loss of 2BPS is going to ruin paintball.