General

[SEKTape]

Horizon and Mr. Furious:

We're clearly not going to make any progress here. Why don't we just agree to disagree? I'm getting tired of rewording the same arguments over and over, and I'm sure you feel the same way. I think it's a good move for DZ and you do too at heart. The only thing we're disagreeing on is the Cyclone feed rule, and I don't see any progress being made until play opens up again and we see how the rule actually works. I'm done here until I have some actual news to report when the field opens again. We can reopen the discussion again if you'd like.

I've actually enjoyed this back and forth exchange over the last day or so, and hope you have too. It's nice to discuss things with guys who can actually articulate the justification for their arguments. Thanks.

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by SEKTape

Horizon and Mr. Furious:

We're clearly not going to make any progress here. Why don't we just agree to disagree? I'm getting tired of rewording the same arguments over and over, and I'm sure you feel the same way. I think it's a good move for DZ and you do too at heart. The only thing we're disagreeing on is the Cyclone feed rule, and I don't see any progress being made until play opens up again and we see how the rule actually works. I'm done here until I have some actual news to report when the field opens again. We can reopen the discussion again if you'd like.

I've actually enjoyed this back and forth exchange over the last day or so, and hope you have too. It's nice to discuss things with guys who can actually articulate the justification for their arguments. Thanks.

You're right we agree. I totally think what DZ is doing is a great move. The only thng we disagree with is the cyclone issue. I would phase their use out, if I were serious about keping this rule around and allowing only gravity feed hoppers. Yes, some noses would be out of joint, but they are already out of joint on the guys that have to get rid of their electronic hoppers. The cyclone equiped players would just have thier noses out of joint a little further, hence why I would give them a year's grace period to straighten their noses (and get new equipment). Other than that, I support DZ's move completely.

[Mr. Furious]

Originally Posted by SEKTape

Horizon and Mr. Furious:

We're clearly not going to make any progress here. Why don't we just agree to disagree? I'm getting tired of rewording the same arguments over and over, and I'm sure you feel the same way. I think it's a good move for DZ and you do too at heart. The only thing we're disagreeing on is the Cyclone feed rule, and I don't see any progress being made until play opens up again and we see how the rule actually works. I'm done here until I have some actual news to report when the field opens again. We can reopen the discussion again if you'd like.

I've actually enjoyed this back and forth exchange over the last day or so, and hope you have too. It's nice to discuss things with guys who can actually articulate the justification for their arguments. Thanks.

You're absolutely correct. It has been a lot fun but the dead horse has been thoroughly beaten. I am completely on board with DZ's decision and I think it was a great idea for their field with the exception of how the cyclone feed issue was handled. I understand their reasoning but I'll never get past the one exception that pretty much nullifies the rule IMHO.

[R.J.]

After reading the posts on the forums about this issue I wonder how many of todays players would have had a chance with a stock 007,no pump added. Skill played in more than deep pockets back then.

[93civiccpe]

I have a great idea for you guys that I don't think anyone has brought up about the cyclone feed. A very simple one too. Why not make a cap for the top of the cyclone feed that has a small feedneck on it. That way you have a standard gravity fed hopper with a small feed hole feeding the cyclone. That way it will be limited like everyone else. Here's a quick image I made up using ms paint.. the blue would be the adapter and the black would be where the standard gravity feed hopper went. That way you have a gravity feed to the outer ring of the cyclone which is what you need. I honestly think this will even things out. Could this be a potential solution to the a5 owners who don't want to sell their markers?? Here's the pic:

[Mr. Furious]

Originally Posted by 93civiccpe

I have a great idea for you guys that I don't think anyone has brought up about the cyclone feed. A very simple one too. Why not make a cap for the top of the cyclone feed that has a small feedneck on it. That way you have a standard gravity fed hopper with a small feed hole feeding the cyclone. That way it will be limited like everyone else. Here's a quick image I made up using ms paint.. the blue would be the adapter and the black would be where the standard gravity feed hopper went. That way you have a gravity feed to the outer ring of the cyclone which is what you need. I honestly think this will even things out. Could this be a potential solution to the a5 owners who don't want to sell their markers?? Here's the pic:

http://www.mcarterbrown.com/gallery/...thumbs/a52.JPG

That's brilliant, man. You should patent that sucker and get to work selling it. If the DZ rule gets popular lots of A5 owners would be beating your door down.

[SEKTape]

Originally Posted by 93civiccpe

Why not make a cap for the top of the cyclone feed that has a small feedneck on it. That way you have a standard gravity fed hopper with a small feed hole feeding the cyclone. That way it will be limited like everyone else.

The cyclone would still work, yes? It'd still be force fed.

[Mr. Furious]

Originally Posted by SEKTape

The cyclone would still work, yes? It'd still be force fed.

It would still be force fed but limited by the feed rate of the gravity hopper on top of the cyclone. I think the trick would be to extend the feed neck far enough in that the chamber of the cyclone couldn't fill up with paint to allow the A5 user a bigger reservoir. One of those Tac caps could be easily modified to do this I'd bet.

[93civiccpe]

Originally Posted by SEKTape

The cyclone would still work, yes? It'd still be force fed.

Well.. yes and no.. if it was cycling too fast for the gravity hopper to feed it, then you would be shooting air. I'm trying to describe this in a way that makes sense. With the stock a5 hopper, it fills all the slots at once so you can rip off a string of paint. With this, it would only fill one slot at a time, so no, it would not be the same... it would be limited by the feed rate of the gravity fed hopper. Like mentioned above, it would have to sit low enough that it could only feed one ball into the space between the paddles and not fill them all up.

It's like saying that an automatic spyder shouldn't be allowed with a gravity fed hopper, because of how fast it cycles. Yes, it cycles that fast, but you can't feed that fast so most of the time if you were shooting that fast you'd just be shooting air or chopping balls that half-fed. I hope I made that easy to understand.. =).

As for patenting it, I don't have the money and I don't have the machinery to make these. This is just one of those things that seems to be a need and I figured out a solution. I hope someone passes that idea on to them so that the a5 owners aren't forced to get rid of their markers.

[SSniper13]

Field Report:

I played at Drop Zone today -their first open play day fo the season. Beautiful weather (66*, sunny, with a nice breeze), but a bit of mud since we just had what I hope was the last snow of the year melt off a few days ago. There were ~40 people there with a mix of rentals and walk-ons with their own equipment. I'd say it was about 50-50 rental and experienced.

Everyone was equipped with a gravity-fed hopper, and the staff were lending them out to the few people who had not heard of the new policy. It got a brief mention in the safety briefing (which they make everyone listen to -no matter who you are), and there was a big sign in the upper staging area about the policy. No one pitched a fit, no one argued, and I only heard a few people all day complain about it.

The new policy seemed to be almost ho-hum to the regulars. We are used to toning it down with the renters anyway, and most everyone I saw was making jokes about it. After the first game I saw one guy shaking his head while looking at his E-Cocker with a VL-200 on top saying, "It's been ten years since I had to remember to shake my gun." Others were aping various new ways to run and snap shoot to keep the paint flowing (one involved running with the gun at arms length while doing windmill type motions -you had to be there). As a new person would join the group he would usually ask how everyone felt about the policy -we'd laugh and say it was cool- and then it was paintball as usual.

As far as game play -it's hard to say if it was cabin fever or what, but games were moving quick. There were lots of aggressive moves, and guys were definitely trying things to see how far they could push the limits of the decreased firepower. I noticed many fewer balls in the air, and guys were not just shooting to shoot. Even in speedball I saw more guys taking the extra few seconds to aim or be sure they had a shot before opening up, and it was much, much easier to get to opening bunkers. I don't feel like the rate of fire impacted the actual flow of games, as the guys with skill still made good shots with short strings and the key positions were still key. It felt like there were many fewer wasted shots, and I saw NOT ONE INSTANCE of anyone walking off the field with more than 3 hits on them all day. Drop Zone is a field that prides itself on not allowing overshooting and it usually only happens a few times a day anyway, but I can't remember a time that no one got lit up -even accidentally- during the day. Even with the aggressive movement guys were only taking 1-2 shots most of the time.

Attitudes: It was a very laid-back and happy day at the field. Guys were congratulating each other, saying "nice shot," breaking out old Spyders to get back into the spirit of Shake-n-bake, and in general laughing a lot. Not unusual for this field, as the regulars are a great bunch, but today just felt good.

The A-5 issue: A few mil-sim guys showed up in vests with tricked out A-5s. They played hard, well, and fair. They did not dominate the field, or clean up on the poor fools with regular VL-200s. I did notice that their strings contained a few more shots than the rest of us, but it appeared to offer them no real advantage. I do suspect that the field will need to tweak the A-5 policy a bit if guys bring them and really lay on the trigger, but the folks today appeared to have no problem keeping it under control. The refs here are attentive, and I don't feel they would hesitate to speak to, and remove if neccessary, any player not toning (or turning?) it down.

Overall: A great day of paintball at a well-run and enjoyable field. The world did not end, the field had a good turnout, and everyone's gun still shot just like it did last season. I'm looking forward to seeing how this plays out over the next few months, but so far -so good!

PS: There's a scenario at Drop Zone in a couple of weeks, and I'm guessing it will be open to all gear types. It will be interesting to see how striking the difference in firepower is after experiencing today.

SSniper13