Drop Zone paintball limits rec play to Gravity Fed hoppers only! - Page 5

usagi_tetsu · 02-02-2008, 10:29 AM

Is anyone else following the debate going on over at PBN? Fully half of the participants are using proper grammar and well thought out arguments. And hardly no direct attacks on each other. When did that start happening? I may have to start going back to the PrettyBoyNetwork.

I think the biggest fact that most people are missing is that you can still play with your souped up, high end electroflinger on their speedball course with the local team practices any time you want (and one Sunday a month during unlimited rec play), they are merely "protecting" their normal open rec play to keep the rentals feeling like they're not just there for the higher-end players to shoot up like so many mobile targets.

The other big problem is that this field is in the Midwest - we don't have the population density the coasts have, so our rec play days number about 30 to 40, on a good day, and about 10 to 20 on an average day. So even if, as was suggested by someone (can't remember if it was on here, PBN, Tinker's Guild, or what, all these forums are starting to meld together in me brain!) that the field merely split up their rec play every day into separate classes (rentals, beginners, novices, and experts), but on an average day, that'd mean you'd have about 3 people per group playing on woods fields that easily handle 30 a side - boring. That's the big problem with being a paint flinger in the midwest - lots of open spaces to set fields up, not enough players (due to low population in the area) to make 'em really fun.

My biggest surprise is that this announcement is coming from one of my local fields. How did we become a trendsetter (if this turns out to become a trend in the industry)?

DarkArmorPB · 02-02-2008, 10:33 AM

The whole thing came about when they decided to allow forcefed hoppers like the new "at the time" Halo to be used at events. Thats when the rate of fire really got out of hand. I watched the debate at the time and knew that it would eventually come to this. Now it has. Don't get me wrong.. I have some of the faster hoppers and have bought and sold plenty of them over the years. But I still only use gravity feed hoppers myself and pretty much think this is a step in the right direction towards leveling the play field out expecially in an openplay/woodsball type of environment and will promote more safety and less overshooting of newcomers. Hopefully this will help stem the decline the overall entry of newcomers to the field of play and revitalize the rise in paintball players nationwide.

DA

Horizon · 02-02-2008, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevedavidson

moving (see you soon M. Carter Brown) process is in place so I'm just reviewing and if others have mentioned this, just ignore.

When we put NPPL together, I strongly advocated for 'gravity feed hoppers only', as it was a natural divide and limiter on not only rate of fire but the arms race and paintball gun technology.

That was in 1992. I and a few others saw where we were headed and made a stand for SKILL over technology.

Unfortunately, the almighty dollar trumps most sensible legislation in this day and age and this one was no exception. There were plenty of people who thought it was more important to sell more paintballs, more and faster ROF markers while sacrificing the game and safety.

Had I been successful in getting this rule adopted back then, I do not believe it would have seriously affected industry growth as big money had already invested in the industry by that time. We were also trying to delineate the line between rec play and tournament play and this would have underscored it. I also doubt that we'd have declining attendance numbers - we'd probably still be growing.

Bad logic once again. The moment that the majority favors pennies NOW instead of millions later is the moment that you should wake up and recognize that whatever thing you're passionate about has irrevocably changed for the worst and its time to look for another hobby.

I think that has been the biggest factor in the last few years for the decine in the paintball industry in general. The ROF on a rec. field is barely distinguishable from a tourney field these days.

In our neck of the woods (west coast of Canada) we didn't follow the trends the rest of the world was taking (yes, all the technology is available to us too) in the recreational portions of our fields. Our paint prices for rec. play are still similar to 1992 prices. Paint prices for tournament type play did follow the trends and prices are pretty much in line with the rest of North America. It's an interesting study, because our growth in rec. ball did not slow down and is still not slowing down (growth rate is actually increasing the last few years). The "we need to lower our prices to attract the masses" mentality, as it turns out was wrong. All that did was increase the paint consumption (didn't make playing cheaper for the average player) and removed much of the "fun" from the game.

Although paintballs on an individual player level do follow the common rules of Supply and Demand (lower cost, sell more - higher cost, sell less), the effect on the industry (at least the rec. part) is exactly the opposite. A more appropriate equation for paintballs at a rec. ball facility would be; lower cost, sell more paint, have less fun, have less customers over the long run.

Chappy · 02-02-2008, 01:56 PM

Even at 3ish bps on my liquid co2 powered semi from 1992, I still prefer my sound activated revvy to a gravity feed. I actually can't even shoot with a forcefed hopper, since it would hold my spring return bolt forward, but I chop occasionally with a gravity feed. I agree with mrfurious in that your alienating the player who has learned a bit about the game, and how to avoid the pitfalls of a cheap setup.
I think that keeping the groups seperate based on expereince/preference makes more sense.

SEKTape · 02-02-2008, 03:19 PM

I went by the DZ Store this morning, but didn't get an answer to the Cyclone question. The guy working there didn't even know about the hopper rule until he started getting calls and questions this morning. He tried to call one of the directors while I was there, but got a voice mail. I'll keep you updated.

Bored383 · 02-02-2008, 03:45 PM

its hard to draw any simple line to distinguish people based on gear. One of the last times I played at Pendleton the refs had a hissy fit and told everyone in the intermediate walk on group that 'if your gun cost more than $XXX then you can't play in this group!!!'

And I laughed as pump players started walking off the field - while guys who clearly had high dollar electros shuffled about and ignored the refs - who of course didn't do anything.

but then that right there is part of the problem. Some folks will try and be sporting and follow the rules, while others act like it never should apply to them.

ehos · 02-02-2008, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bored383

its hard to draw any simple line to distinguish people based on gear.

No it's not. Renters play by themselves. If you have your own gun, you play separately.

Simple. If you want to play with renters (why?!?) then you play with a gravity fed hopper. How hard is that to comprehend? (But mixing renters with guys with their own equipment is always a bad idea, it's bad for the game, its' bad for profit and it's bad for the new guys).

I wish more fields would do this, as obviously the players can't be counted on to play 'in the right group.'

Jaan · 02-02-2008, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brycelarson

And in a day when so many guns have eyes - chopping should be even less of a problem than it was.

Ugh...people who can aford a gun with eyes won't have the problems chopping that the newbies with the entry level guns have.

Bad move on thier part. Dumb really.

Bored383 · 02-02-2008, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehos

No it's not. Renters play by themselves. If you have your own gun, you play separately.

the example I pointed out was in regards to an 'intermediate' group . . . that is rec ball players, not renters

LK-13 · 02-02-2008, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Furious

There can be no exceptions. If they allow a Qloader for you then they have to allow it for everyone. Gravity fed or nothing. Simple, concise and no room for bargaining.

well not to argue with you but what field management says goes.
and i just emailed them to find out if there are any extenuating circumstances that the field management or a Ref might over ride the rule.

i have never seen anything that was carved in stone, so you might want to pull back from your black & white, all or nothing view point.

it actually comes of a little hostile.
which i do not think was your intent,
after all you don't know me and i don't know you,
why would you get your back up over something so insignifigant...

02-02-2008, 10:29 AM	#41 (permalink)
usagi_tetsu Active Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Kansas City, MO	Is anyone else following the debate going on over at PBN? Fully half of the participants are using proper grammar and well thought out arguments. And hardly no direct attacks on each other. When did that start happening? I may have to start going back to the PrettyBoyNetwork. I think the biggest fact that most people are missing is that you can still play with your souped up, high end electroflinger on their speedball course with the local team practices any time you want (and one Sunday a month during unlimited rec play), they are merely "protecting" their normal open rec play to keep the rentals feeling like they're not just there for the higher-end players to shoot up like so many mobile targets. The other big problem is that this field is in the Midwest - we don't have the population density the coasts have, so our rec play days number about 30 to 40, on a good day, and about 10 to 20 on an average day. So even if, as was suggested by someone (can't remember if it was on here, PBN, Tinker's Guild, or what, all these forums are starting to meld together in me brain!) that the field merely split up their rec play every day into separate classes (rentals, beginners, novices, and experts), but on an average day, that'd mean you'd have about 3 people per group playing on woods fields that easily handle 30 a side - boring. That's the big problem with being a paint flinger in the midwest - lots of open spaces to set fields up, not enough players (due to low population in the area) to make 'em really fun. My biggest surprise is that this announcement is coming from one of my local fields. How did we become a trendsetter (if this turns out to become a trend in the industry)? __________________ WWVD? Sometimes, you just have to ask yourself, "What would Velcor do?" My Feedback TOG

02-02-2008, 10:33 AM	#42 (permalink)
DarkArmorPB VampiresTasteLikeChicken Join Date: May 2006 Location: St Louis area	The whole thing came about when they decided to allow forcefed hoppers like the new "at the time" Halo to be used at events. Thats when the rate of fire really got out of hand. I watched the debate at the time and knew that it would eventually come to this. Now it has. Don't get me wrong.. I have some of the faster hoppers and have bought and sold plenty of them over the years. But I still only use gravity feed hoppers myself and pretty much think this is a step in the right direction towards leveling the play field out expecially in an openplay/woodsball type of environment and will promote more safety and less overshooting of newcomers. Hopefully this will help stem the decline the overall entry of newcomers to the field of play and revitalize the rise in paintball players nationwide. DA __________________ How They Make Paintballs. Total Greif Xtreme Paintball park / Milstadt Il. MCBrown Feedback PBNation Feedback

02-02-2008, 01:56 PM	#44 (permalink)
Chappy All Hail King Skippy!! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Phillipsburg, NJ	Even at 3ish bps on my liquid co2 powered semi from 1992, I still prefer my sound activated revvy to a gravity feed. I actually can't even shoot with a forcefed hopper, since it would hold my spring return bolt forward, but I chop occasionally with a gravity feed. I agree with mrfurious in that your alienating the player who has learned a bit about the game, and how to avoid the pitfalls of a cheap setup. I think that keeping the groups seperate based on expereince/preference makes more sense. __________________ My Feedback: http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/s...3932#post13932 "They wouldn't pay me more to bury you rich than to bury you poor." Soundgarden

02-02-2008, 03:19 PM	#45 (permalink)
SEKTape Active Member Join Date: Jan 2007	I went by the DZ Store this morning, but didn't get an answer to the Cyclone question. The guy working there didn't even know about the hopper rule until he started getting calls and questions this morning. He tried to call one of the directors while I was there, but got a voice mail. I'll keep you updated. __________________ Reagan's Army "Arrogance on the part of the meritorious is even more offensive to us than the arrogance of those without merit: for merit itself is offensive." -Friedrch Nietzsche "To love is to protect. To protect is to never betray." -Brandon Heat

02-02-2008, 03:45 PM	#46 (permalink)
Bored383 slacker elite Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sandy Eggo by way of Mobtown	its hard to draw any simple line to distinguish people based on gear. One of the last times I played at Pendleton the refs had a hissy fit and told everyone in the intermediate walk on group that 'if your gun cost more than $XXX then you can't play in this group!!!' And I laughed as pump players started walking off the field - while guys who clearly had high dollar electros shuffled about and ignored the refs - who of course didn't do anything. but then that right there is part of the problem. Some folks will try and be sporting and follow the rules, while others act like it never should apply to them. __________________ Check out my website http://www.bored383.com, hosted at http://www.angryhosting.com/ We need to save ourselves from those who would save us from ourselves. Tom Kaye '08 A book has moving parts. They're called pages. What will the future hold? smart parts = taco bell . . . Be Well!!