General

[b-cuzz]

Sorry Steve, I've gotta agree with Jim on this one. I'm not going to bad-mouth the system (I believe they're watching).

I'm not saying we should keep kids locked in the house. I'm merely stating that the classroom is becoming less of a learning environment than a hangout.

I believe that kids should be able to interact with those of their own age, but there are alternatives to public schools that allow them to better focus on the reason we have schools in the first place.

[davidwirth]

Originally Posted by stevedavidson

HP - sorry to disagree, but we do. I view home schooling and private schooling to be more of a danger to the future of society than I do a few incompetent teachers.

Basic reason? Unless kids socialize with each other at an age when they are still plastic and can learn that the BS their parents are filling their heads with is, in fact, BS, the BS gets perpetuated without question.

Given the responsibilities we place on teachers and what we expect them to do, its no wonder the unions come across as whiney and controlling and power hungry. They're the ones who ought to be commanding 6 figure incomes and a well-rounded public education ought to be what our governments spend the majority of their budgets on - teach the kids to think for themselves, teach them about economics and money and teach them about law and government - really teach them those subjects - and inside a generation we'll see some major changes.

The system may be broke, but its not the teacher's who are (mostly) to blame - its society's lack of prioritizing education that is.

WTF. After leaving industry to enter the teaching profession (because I thought with my knowledge of math and science there was a real need), I found that the descrimination against actual knowledge is profound in the educational system. The administators (who DO command a 6 figure income) don't want knowledgeable individuals in the class room but the mindless morons who have successfully passed 4 years of some of the easiest class this side of sports med. Those with educational degrees have been shown to be the bottom percentile on standard tests. Basically, they know how to repeat all the socialigical BS that their educational professors had spouted for 4 years. Remember those who can do, those who can't, teach and those who can't teach, teach education. Needless to say, I am no longer teaching in public schools even though I had increased the pass rate for my classes by 5% (to 91%) over the teacher the previous year. I guess well rounded means to know how to properly put a condom on your partner while in 1st grade? Even if you are home schooled, you still have to pass the state tests, the kids are still held to the standard of state testing (which is a joke). The federal Government has no call in giving any money to education at all. No where in the constitution does it say everyone has a "right to a free education" Proven fact that when you have to pay for something out of your own pocket, you treat it with greater respect. Kids who are home schooled are not sequestered to their room. Most likely, they live in a neighborhood with other children, and other activities with families for example church, boy and girls clubs of America, scouts, ect. Maybe the parents don't see the necessity of their kids getting to know drug dealers, drug users, goths, or all the sexuality that takes place in school. As for priority, look at the budget that goes towards education. Typically, people blame that there isn't enough money going towards something. Please tell me, if we doubled the budget toward education just what would it accomplish? Absolutly nothing! How can it be a money issue when some private schools who have a fraction of the money a private school has turns out a better quality of product? If they bring back corporal punishment and the teachers are actually allowed to kick the trouble makers out of class or school, you would see a remarkable improvement. Look what Mr. Clark did in NJ with the public school that the movie "stand by me" was about. I am sure some of the movie was fiction but it was based on actual events. Why should parents be forced to send their kids to public schools? School choice, vouchers ect. is the way to go. Monopolies are suppose to be illegal in the USA but the Public school system has one on education. YOu are forced to pay for it even if you don't use it. At least with the post office, you only buy the stamps you need. Another problem it is the teachers/adminstators that are the problem. In elementary school, they are not allowed to fail a student who doesn't grasp the concepts as long as they "tried", now they get thrown into HS where they can fail and they have break downs because first no one likes to fail second, they haven't grasped the concepts that are the prerequisits for HS. Then you have them teaching algebra in 5th grade instead of teaching them 5th grade math. They show them how to use the calculator to do the problem and then when you give them a test where a calculator isn't allowed they fail. Ask a 9th grader to add 9/16 + 3/8 with out a calculator. You may even have trouble if you asked them what 9 X 6 is too. This is basic 4th and 5th grade math and they can't do it. This IS the TEACHERS FAULT!!!!!!
I guess my wife who is in the process of getting her PhD (already holds a BS and MS in Biology) and myself who holds a BS in engineering and a MBA along with those wasted 18 graduate hours in education so I could get a teaching license aren't qualified to home school our child (if we chose to have one) according to you because we would fill their brains in with BS? I take it BS being that government is a hinderance to a free society and that they need to be self sufficient and not depend on the government to take care of all their needs? The government doesn't like people teaching their own kids. Look what they did in WACO, not only did they kill the parents who were teaching the children, they figured that the kids were already corrupted by the parents so they must die too. Thank you for protecting us Ms. Reno, if you hadn't step in, it could have been like "children of the corn"

Case in point that teachers are stupid, I was subbing for a class and the kids are telling me that their blood is blue. This was told to them by another teacher. Our blood is not blue! The kids actually thought that it was blue blue like the sky or this blue . un oxygenated blood is called blue put it is really a dark dark red/purple. She told them that it turned red when it hit air. Now, how many of you have given blood? was it a nice sky blue color or ice blue or even dark blue? NO it wasn't it was reddish. When they draw blood from you, it is in a vacuum and doens't hit air its still a dark red not something any one would call blue. But the science books have arteries colored red and veins colored blue so naturally a dumb *** teacher goes "oh we must have blue blood" and remember Dr. Spock has vulcan green blood.

[Raion]

^^^

Topic reads : a girls guide to paintball





how does that involve homeschooling ???????????????????

[davidwirth]

just responding to someone elses post

[heinous]

Originally Posted by davidwirth

just responding to someone elses post

but I agree, i didn't know to appreciate a good high school teacher until after I graduated high school.

I think kids can still become smart in public schools as long as their parents step in when the kids are taught BS. Like the blood thing. Just tell your kids outside of class about it, but to play along inside class.

[Christian Nelson]

As for priority, look at the budget that goes towards education. Typically, people blame that there isn't enough money going towards something. Please tell me, if we doubled the budget toward education just what would it accomplish? Absolutly nothing! How can it be a money issue when some private schools who have a fraction of the money a private school has turns out a better quality of product?

For some reason, rather than admit they were completely wrong about something,they'd rather say it was under funded. UNfortunately for them, that argument only works if the issue was worse before there was any funding at all.

Case in point. Recently it was reported that 1 in 4 I think it was teenage girls has an STD. The planned parenthood folks came out right away saying this was due to the lack of sexual education available for american girls...


HUH?

How do you make that conclusion when there has never been more sexual education available for a teenage girl in the history of the planet than today in the USA. The fact of the matter is, there is a direct coorelation between the introduction of sexual education and the rise of sexually transmitted disease among teenage girls. Rather than examine the fact that they are probably not doing a good thing teaching kids how to have sex "safely" they would rather say there isn't enough of it.

How can this be when the instances of teenage girls in nations with no sexual education are far lower? I wonder what the rate of STD's among teenage girls is in Saudi Arabia? How can those who claim to be smarter than us be so stupid? More people are in poverty after the war on poverty began than before. MOre people graduate from highschool completely illiterate than before there was free education available for anyone in the US.

How is it possible that they can say expanding these things would help, when every indication shows that it would actually make it worse?

Either they are too stupid to see what is sitting in front of them, or they actually want to se our society destroyed, and this is a good way of chipping away at it, and allow them to get a piece of the pie in the meantime.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by stevedavidson

HP - sorry to disagree, but we do. I view home schooling and private schooling to be more of a danger to the future of society than I do a few incompetent teachers.

Basic reason? Unless kids socialize with each other at an age when they are still plastic and can learn that the BS their parents are filling their heads with is, in fact, BS, the BS gets perpetuated without question.

indeed!

while you might feel as a parent that you know it all, and understand the world in its completeness, you dont. and passing on to your children simply what you know, and telling them that anything else is wrong, is simply brainwash.

and you just begging for two things - either they take everything you say to heart, and have a terrible life. or they reject everything you said and have a terrible life.

in the first case, where they take everything you say as fact - they dont understand the way the world works. guess what kids, poeple you know will be promiscuous, they will do things you dont agree with, they will say things you dont like, and that doesn't actually make the evil. in the end, you will have to live a life with poeple you disagree with, fundamentally. and unless you can get the **** off your high horse and actually get down to work, play and whatever else with the real world - you will reject the real world and it will reject you.

in the second case, the first weekend little miss christian girl goes out her freshman year and gets banged on a pool table by two junior communications majors becuase she didn't have a Christian coffee house to go to, you will have failed. in this case, your childs morality and such is based on you, and the church and her friends. and the minute those things are not holding her down, they freak out.

the goal is to raise a kid that relies on the themselves, trusts there decisions, and sticks by there convictions.

and the only way that can happen - is if they learn real quick - that poeple dont like them, poeple disagree with them, and thats ok. number one lesson i ever learned in public school is just that - there are poeple that you hate, and that hate you in this world. and at the end of the day, and your project needs to be done by monday - you have to do it. you have to live with and get along with a roomate who drinks on a tuesday night. you just do.

my mother has always said that if she did it all over again, that she would have home schooled me and my brother.

and i always tell her that would be the worst mistake in raising me.

then again, she still thinks im a virgin.

what your parents need to teach a child to rationality. its logical and critical thinking skills. its how to emotionally and rationally deal with what the world sends you.

what your parents shouldn't teach you is - morals, beliefs, political ideology or anything like any of those.

and if you have done well, and raised your child right, you child will think for himself, and make good decisions. he will understand the WHY you say to stay in school, the WHY you should keep your virginity, the WHY shouldn't do drugs, the WHY of it all. teh WHY and how to understand complex situations is far more important than the what.

and if you have done badly and only told them "you shouldn't do this or that, becuase i said so, or becuase the church says so, or because its evil" then your child will turn out like the two situations i already highlighted earlier.

so back to public school -

the point is that while we all encounter many many many terrible teachers. teachers that flat out teach the wrong things, if your child is a logical and rational thinking child - they can make judgments about what is coming into there head. and they can take the 100's of different teachers they have in there life, and they can distill who has a brain, who doesn't. whos experience is worthwhile to listen to and whos isn't. but, if all you do is remove your child from that, and give them only what YOU think is correct, they will have no ability to critically think about anything. they will have no idea about anything the minute they move out. and you will get one of those two situations i have explained before.

and thats what the previous generation has so far failed at - teaching children thinking skills. instead, they tried to teach us what to do and what not to do. they didn't realize that deep down what a kid does in a situation has nothing to do with what you told him/her to do, but with what that kid thinks, what he understands, and how this relates to his future and his personal wellbeing. an add on TV saying weed is bad means nothing. but teach a kid to decide between the consequences of using or not - and then you will have a successful child.

and so you get exactly what everyone is complaining about. this is the product of telling your kids what to do, what to know, how to think, and then them totally rejecting everything you said. and its only natural, i mean what else could you expect?

knowledge is worthless without judgment. you can look facts up in books, you can know more than ever in our society with the internet, wikipedia, and such. and its all worthless unless your child has the thinking skills to make rational decisions.

[davidwirth]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

indeed!

while you might feel as a parent that you know it all, and understand the world in its completeness, you dont. and passing on to your children simply what you know, and telling them that anything else is wrong, is simply brainwash.

Maybe in your case this would be true because you are a dumbass. And this is fully evident in your statement. Your statement concludes that the parents or "private teachers" are incompetent to teach kids, so therefore one has to conclude that only the state has the mental capacity to educate children. But between myself and my wife, we are more than capable of educating our children. If public education was sooo great how come the majority of the politicians (both demos and reps) send their children to private schools? I tell you why! Because public school in their eyes are for the masses (let them eat cake) while their little F-ck trophys go to private schools. If you really think that these educators in public school

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

understand the world in its completeness

you are sadly mistaken. Education draws the bottom of the barrel when it comes to teachers (obviously there are always exceptions to the rule), these are the ones who scored lowest on the SATs and other tests. Education departments are staffed by so called professionals that have driven the primary and secondary schools of this nation into the toilet.

As for the rest, do you really believe that a 5th grader has the rational to figure out what the teacher is teaching is wrong? If the kids were self reliant, and had the rational to make life choices at age 12, there wouldn't be any need for parents. Of course the disrespect that I see in the post toward your own mother says it all.

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

what your parents shouldn't teach you is - morals, beliefs, political ideology or anything like any of those

And who teaches the child these things? The PUBLIC SCHOOL right? If they don't learn it home, they will learn it at school. The public school teaches morals as in there are none "if it feels good, DO IT", they also don't teach beliefs because they don't beleive in anything, and the political ideology that they teach is that the kids don't need the parents they have the state to take care of them.

Actually the worst mistake that she had was not using birth control 22 years ago

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by davidwirth

Maybe in your case this would be true because you are a dumbass. And this is fully evident in your statement. Your statement concludes that the parents or "private teachers" are incompetent to teach kids, so therefore one has to conclude that only the state has the mental capacity to educate children. But between myself and my wife, we are more than capable of educating our children. If public education was sooo great how come the majority of the politicians (both demos and reps) send their children to private schools? I tell you why! Because public school in their eyes are for the masses (let them eat cake) while their little F-ck trophys go to private schools. If you really think that these educators in public school you are sadly mistaken. Education draws the bottom of the barrel when it comes to teachers (obviously there are always exceptions to the rule), these are the ones who scored lowest on the SATs and other tests. Education departments are staffed by so called professionals that have driven the primary and secondary schools of this nation into the toilet.

thanks for the personal insult! i was under the impression this wasn't PBN, but i was wrong. i never said anything like what you accuse me of. dont put words in my mouth. i do like how you point to our politicians and use them as evidence, and a model to follow. next time i need life advise, im gonna ask ted kennedy or good ol' bush ... right ... thats probably the most redicuous idea yet posted in this thread.

As for the rest, do you really believe that a 5th grader has the rational to figure out what the teacher is teaching is wrong? If the kids were self reliant, and had the rational to make life choices at age 12, there wouldn't be any need for parents. Of course the disrespect that I see in the post toward your own mother says it all.

yup, i did. the need for parents is still as strong as ever tho - to teach your kids how to think rationally! a parent that simply says "no you can;t do do that" is worthless. thats not parenting, thats babysitting.

And who teaches the child these things? The PUBLIC SCHOOL right? If they don't learn it home, they will learn it at school. The public school teaches morals as in there are none "if it feels good, DO IT", they also don't teach beliefs because they don't beleive in anything, and the political ideology that they teach is that the kids don't need the parents they have the state to take care of them.

no, they decide things for themselves. public school doesn't teach your kids these things, they decide them for themselves. the only real morals are the ones that you stick by, not the ones you say out load. and those morals are the ones you decided on. no one is teaching morals, morals are based on your own thoughts. they dont learn them at home, they get told them at home. they only learn them when THEY decide on them.

Actually the worst mistake that she had was not using birth control 22 years ago
wow

seriously, first, you missed the entire point of my post. secondly, you insulted me and my mother and you dont even know me. i am wondering where you learned that these things were ok to do over simply a discussion of philosophical differences - perhaps at home? did mom tell you its ok to tell poeple they should have been aborted when there is a disagreement?

yes, i was mocking you right there. however, notice that i did not stoop to your level at any point.

[davidwirth]

no its not about disagreement, it is about bettering the herd.

while you might feel as a parent that you know it all, and understand the world in its completeness, you dont. and passing on to your children simply what you know, and telling them that anything else is wrong, is simply brainwash.
is this not your post?

If that is not saying that parents are too stupid to educate their own kids (you were agreeing with SD about how home schools and private schools are a bad for kids) just what actually are you trying to say? Kids need to be taught sometimes it is "just do it because I say so" I am not going to get into a discussion "why not to touch the stove other than its hot" Granted some kids are stupid and will get burned on the stove because they didn't listen, oh well that is life, live and learn real stupid ones will get burned numerous times before it sinks in. You did call your own mother basically an idiot because she would rather have home schooled you because you think she isn't smart enough or maybe didn't take enough educational classes to properly indoctrinate you the way the state wants to.

As for the last F- ya if ya can't take a joke