General

[scoprius]

Originally Posted by spymongoose

ok ok, the cops got called, they did their full reaction thing, and it turned out to be a paintball gun part. what dissapoints me is that the kid is being CHARGED for possesing a paintball gun part at school. Its one thing to cause a rucus and get suspended for that... its the mere possesion of it that he is getting slammed for.

Honestly they should have know something was up if the kid had the receiver all morning and girl didn't see it fit to reprt it until a later time in the day.

Originally Posted by Al_Steel

Things I brought to high school circa mid 1980s
Civil War sword (History class)
Flail (History class)
.22 Rifle (leather working project - sling)
12 Gauge Shotgun (leather working project - sling)
4+ inch hunting knife (for a shop leather working project in MIDDLE school)
Recurve bow with practice arrows (gym class - believe it or not!)
Most of them were in plain view and even carried (HORRORS!!) on school grounds. Nobody panicked, no police were called, I wasn't suspended, no mass murdering rampage ensued. I dunno WTF has become of our society, it's really scary how pacifistic and horrified we have become at even so much as an image of a firearm. Personally, I believe it's the gov'ts surreptitious way of paving the path through our youth towards a society that is so terrified of firearms that it will have no problem at all with the concept of total disarmament.

But that's just me I guess...

-Cheers!

I honestly think its more of a mass socitital issue, anti gun lobbyists say guns laws will prevent crimes. I say they won't because those who have the intention of commiting a crime with a gun will get one through illegal means regardless. All it does is deture those who would actually use those firearms lawfully, as they had to go through the extra effort of getting them lawfully. It also means that those who are going to commit illegal acts will continue to do so either way.

Originally Posted by davidwirth

Things I took to school for spanish class (had to do dialogues so me and my partner would always do skits with full props)
8 foot long 4" diameter potato gun
Electric drill with 12" drill bit
gas powered chain saw (we did leave the chain at home though)
and numerous other things that would have me classified as a felon.
yet I did get into trouble for starting the "cinnimon challenge" as a senior
Again mid 80's graduated '88'
80's were the best! Cool music, loved the 80's hair and the spandex on the women at Balley's

that paticular fad has yet to die or stop looking so good

Originally Posted by pinesftw

Humorous:
XM8 with plastic is ok but having PISTOLS?!?!?!?
Pistols are for the cools kids, man! You CANNOT have a pistol that looks like a toy or else them baddies with their custom pistols will laugh at you.
With Science evolving, Plastics may be a better choice as it is cheaper and lighter but is more prone to melting but metal just heats up. Having a pistol here in Canada can be considered illegal ( I wanted to look like Dante from DMC rocking two super special awesome handguns =X )They probably chose plastic because it costs less but it is more troublesome to make. Money makes the world go round I guess

Ever heard of a restricted weapons permit? Legally you need one to be in possesion of a pistol type firearm, you also have to have had a regular FAC and have passed a criminal background check as well as the safety tests. Here in Saskatchewan we are LEGALLY required to have all firearms under at least three forms of sercurity locks, to me thats understandable yet silly. Because if someone ever did attempt to break in I would have to find my keys then unlock the reloading room, the gun cabnet, then take off the trigger lock, and proceed to the ammo safe to sort through the contents and find the appropriate caliber or guage shells needed. Also the reason glock and sig sauer went to composites and plastics is they have higher tensile strength then the same thickness of steel, there more wear/abrasion as well as heat resistant, cheaper to replace damaged parts with, and above all lighter for the end user. They were originally designed to be law enforcement and military side arms, that wouldn't feel heavy after a days work.

Originally Posted by Mr. Furious

So, how many school shootings will justify tighter security and zero tolerance policies in your opinion? How many more Columbines before you feel that zero tolerance for weapons or weapon-like items in schools is reasonable? It's not about taking away freedoms, it's about making sure that when we send our kids to school we feel they are as safe as they are at home. No one said the kid had no right to possess paintball equipment, no one said he shouldn't be able to experience paintball in the proper setting but bringing something to school that resembles a gun, bomb, knife or anything else that can cause panic or fear is unacceptable and in this day and age it cannot be assumed that it was an innocent mistake because the evidence shows that almost every school attack was well planned and rehearsed with "dummy" weapons and bombs before the actual attack was carried out.

Do you have children in school? If not then you can't appreciate how it feels to drop your kids off at school the day after a monster holds a classroom hostage, shoots kids and then rapes young girls while the class watches. Or how it feels to see breaking news on CNN about a school shooting somewhere and wonder if the people involved were networking with other students across the country and planning the same thing. How about the copycats who want to kill themselves but want to be "famous" so they take out as many kids and teachers as they can before pulling the trigger on themselves?

We spent too many years and lost too many children due to being reactive rather than proactive to school violence and people were outraged that more wasn't done before the attacks took place. Now we are proactive and have zero tolerance policies to prevent more of these occurrences and people say we are in a police state? It's unfortunate that things are the way they are now but if a broad list of restricted items and zero tolerance for possession of those items means that just one more child comes home from school then I think it's worth it.

The real issues aren't with the laws it begins at home, for every loving parent who is willing to risk having child services called on them for rightfully discplining their own kids. I see another fifty who are contented to buy their children whatever they want when they through a temper tantrum in a public place. Honestly if my nease or my nephews tried that they'd be in the back seat of my camry for a time out and a stern talking to so fast it actually would be funny.

I mean honestly society is teaching this generation, my pathetic generation, to shunt the blame onto others instead of looking at themselves in the mirror and dealing with their personal demons and emottional issues. I was that fat kid that always got picked on in elementary, I was the kid who was always alone, a nerd, an outcast, the guy in the corner with his headphones blaring all day to block out the world so I didn't have to feel bad. I thought it was my fault my parents got a divorce when I was 11, I always blamed others for my problems at school. And you know what, I still feel like an outcast some days, the difference between me and those people who go off and do these horrible, dispicable, disgusting things, is knowning why I am to blame and no one else is.

I use to think it was my fault somehow when my parents got divorced, but it isn't I know that now because I can see the whole picture. But at the time there was no way I could have, simply because my parents only use to fight around me. We all have things to deal with in our lives, and I think that the way our scociety is set up right now is honestly laughable. We blame everyone but the real cause of our problems, ourselves, no I didn't say society made me do anything. If I make a bad chose or screw some thing up, that was my mistake, I'll learn from it, thats what your supposed to do as a person. But when a kid commits a crime and gets a few hours commnity service they don't learn anything other then "hey if this is all I get what do I care."

Then on the other end of the spectrum is administrations over reacting and completly trying to justify their actions. This might be an interesting read for you guys, it was in the responces of the first article.
AR15.COM :: Forums :: My son was suspended three days for having a Glock pen...

For anyone who thinks that those of us who are younger won't see your perspectives we do, we just may not have full comprehension of them at this point in our lives. I'm 18, working 36 hours a week+over time, on top of going to college. Yet I still find time for working on my cars, my motorcycle, and paintballing with some good friends on my rare days off on weekends. My point being, there is always be understanding with others as long as we take the time to inform ourselves correctly and objectively. But that seems to be a dying art in our current way of life, a self induced blissfull suburban ignorance.

[Mr. Furious]

Scorpius: Excellent post and welcome to MCB!

The only thing that I can't agree with is this being a gun control issue. The gun haters try to spin it into that to support their case but when it comes to school violence it simply muddies the waters and takes attention away from the real issue which is protecting kids at school from other kids and adults that mean them harm.

I do think that the people who allow kids easy access to guns need to be punished. Heck, a woman near me bought her son a bunch of guns that he ultimately planned on using in school shooting. They're gonna put her in jail and that's where she needs to be. Obviously if a 16 year-old decides to break into his dad's gun safe while dad is at work and uses heavy tools to do so, the father can't really be held accountable because the kid would have got the guns no matter what. But a parent who leaves unsecured firearms around the house that wind up going to school needs to be punished for their irresponsibility.

[pinesftw]

Ever heard of a restricted weapons permit? Legally you need one to be in possesion of a pistol type firearm, you also have to have had a regular FAC and have passed a criminal background check as well as the safety tests. Here in Saskatchewan we are LEGALLY required to have all firearms under at least three forms of sercurity locks, to me thats understandable yet silly. Because if someone ever did attempt to break in I would have to find my keys then unlock the reloading room, the gun cabnet, then take off the trigger lock, and proceed to the ammo safe to sort through the contents and find the appropriate caliber or guage shells needed. Also the reason glock and sig sauer went to composites and plastics is they have higher tensile strength then the same thickness of steel, there more wear/abrasion as well as heat resistant, cheaper to replace damaged parts with, and above all lighter for the end user. They were originally designed to be law enforcement and military side arms, that wouldn't feel heavy after a days work.

Thanks! Welcome to MCB :cheers:

I do think that the people who allow kids easy access to guns need to be punished. Heck, a woman near me bought her son a bunch of guns that he ultimately planned on using in school shooting. They're gonna put her in jail and that's where she needs to be. Obviously if a 16 year-old decides to break into his dad's gun safe while dad is at work and uses heavy tools to do so, the father can't really be held accountable because the kid would have got the guns no matter what. But a parent who leaves unsecured firearms around the house that wind up going to school needs to be punished for their irresponsibility.

So I guess that the parents are about as much responsible as the boy. It would also be a wise Idea to hide the Gun someplace and not tell your son/daughter, even if they are responsible. Sadly, nothing seems to be what they really are... Things aren't as simple anymore But we do have competent Law Enforcement and I am very thankful for having them!

[scoprius]

Originally Posted by Mr. Furious

Scorpius: Excellent post and welcome to MCB!

The only thing that I can't agree with is this being a gun control issue. The gun haters try to spin it into that to support their case but when it comes to school violence it simply muddies the waters and takes attention away from the real issue which is protecting kids at school from other kids and adults that mean them harm.

I do think that the people who allow kids easy access to guns need to be punished. Heck, a woman near me bought her son a bunch of guns that he ultimately planned on using in school shooting. They're gonna put her in jail and that's where she needs to be. Obviously if a 16 year-old decides to break into his dad's gun safe while dad is at work and uses heavy tools to do so, the father can't really be held accountable because the kid would have got the guns no matter what. But a parent who leaves unsecured firearms around the house that wind up going to school needs to be punished for their irresponsibility.

Thanks for the welcome, I tend to lurk quietly.

I agree but only to a degree, I was that kid that was picked on , beat up, rediculed whatever you want to call it, in all my years of school up till this year at college I have seen kids hurt, assaulted, and verbally abused by their piers regardless of rule changes, or new policies put in place to stop it. In fact from being on the other end of it myself it seemed to make them more zelous in their pursuit of tormenting and harming others if only to distract themselves from thier own problems. Through the first two years of highschool for me I saw the punishment for fighting go from a one day suspention to a two week suspention with madatory written apology. Yet the change had no effect, no real meaning until I started to fight myself, I was of course let off because I never started anything but I will finish it now. I started lifting weights running, doing anything I could to make it known I was stronger, and if they started anything they knew they wouldn't be the one standing after. It has to fall on the individual parents to get their kids ready for what ever life may through at them be it horrid, obscene, disgusting, dispicable things or just plainly dealing with a bully at school. It also falls onto the parents to teach their children proper gun safety, and not to make it a taboo or rebelious thing.

I have been shooting firearms for six almost seven years at this point in my life(.22 Cooey Winchester, and my old Remington .410 auto, I still have those things in the safe )and have had my own personally owned firearms in my own safe that only myself and my dad have keys for. Of course they were registered under my dads name until I was old enough to take the saftey course and get my own licence/permit. I think it stems from the lack of dicipine and almost criminal level of neglegence on the parents part. I was raised with a few very strict beliefes that I think everyone can embrace, respect others for their opinions and thoughts even if you don't agree. Everyone is equal no matter their appearance or religion(yes muslims included, because killing is against their religion.) No matter how old, young, or different someone may seem to be from you, there are always ten similarities for every one difference you may find. Those are the things I believe, and was raised with to hold true in everyday life, you respect everyone till they disrespect you.

Honestly people blame their parents divorces for their problems or they say they didn't get enough attention as a kid, its not societies fault, its not their parents fault, its not the fault of their second grade teacher who pronounced their name wrong. Its souley their own, and I think that the willingness to shove the blame onto other or medicate every single problem they have with pharmasuticle(sp?) drugs, only fuels the neglegence that is growing in our scociety like a diesease.

Also anyone who leaves firearms just lying around their home is criminally neglegent and should not be allowed to own, operate, or be in posesion of them at all, at least in my opinion.

Originally Posted by pinesftw

Thanks! Welcome to MCB :cheers:
So I guess that the parents are about as much responsible as the boy. It would also be a wise Idea to hide the Gun someplace and not tell your son/daughter, even if they are responsible. Sadly, nothing seems to be what they really are... Things aren't as simple anymore But we do have competent Law Enforcement and I am very thankful for having them!

Again thanks for the welcome.

[Azzy]

Once upon a time, a fight like that would break out, kids would get dragged to the gym, put on the boxing gloves, and say if youer going to do it, do it right.
Maybe it was before my time, and yours, but kids, expecially boys, need an outlet for aggrivation and frustration, and lets not forget hormones.

Its just the modern PC school has taken away most of those healthy outlets and left the kids to find their own outlet, which usually isnt all that great.

then add the frustration a kids gets from not learning, but knowing that they are smarter than it seems to be, and you get all kinds of trouble. (that likens back to the fact that we no longer teach phonics in schools, which is leading us to a society of slaves who cant read, as opposed to free men who can read and learn on their own. hey, it worked on all those Africans back in the 1700's, why not try it again, eh?)

[SnowDawgy]

I think we are talking about turning schools into a super max prison here? I mean I personally am sick of the crap for air travel and just won't travel by plane. What happened to innocent until PROVEN guilty. I can't get on a plane with my pocket knife, or leatherman, or a freaking nail file, what me and the boys from row 11 are making a shive and gonna tunnel our way off this plane. Look at the requirements for air travel now, and compare it to a prisoner's requirements, looks pretty damned similar to me, and are not schools now heading down that path?? Call me an alarmist but this all seems like too much power in the hands of the Govn' to me. And I am concerned what happens in the USA cause a lot of it winds up being followed up here in Canada. Just say no to having to show your papers ever block to the Nazis. Cause I think we are not too far away from that (RIF chip anyone).

[faro]

Hey all,

I have to agree with the original post. I was raised in a westernish East indian family. I got my *** whipped when ever I was a fool and trust me my butt became red instead of brown. I learn to respect my elders, majority of my teachers and most of all my family. I will admit my mom went over board some times but the alternative would be to little. At the rate I was going in life when I was a youth I would be in jail for drugs or possibly murder. I have the *** whoopin' to thank for keeping me somewhat one the tracks even when I swear I was way off. Kids today call social services for ever little thing. They know they are minors and can get past the law for most crimes and that the rebel is cool. Well unfortunately for all those misguided rebelious youths, every one else is rebelling the same way so it aint rebelling anymore its being part of the heard. They are so blinded by the fact that its cool to be as far away from the quote unquote "regular person" that they dont find themselves but they completely lose themselves. They become confused cowards who don't understand respect and compassion for a fellow human being and its affecting North American as a whole. Just so you know My crazy insane behaviour actually was chilled out by my folks through discipline and now I hold a great Job have great friends and am respected through out my community. All because of same *** whoopin'.

Spank your kids but please dont beat them for that does the opposite.

Faro aka Dirty Bangoli (from Canada hence the different spelling)

P.S. My super cane' (tricked out Hurricane) is coming all... pics when its done this summer

[scoprius]

Forgot to mention that I also am Canadian, my dad would kick my *** if I mouthed off or misbehaved a few years ago but he took me out biking, running, and generally teaching me healthy ways to vent my pent up aggression. I intend to get my kids into organized sports and teach them to do things like weight lifting(no it doesn't stunt your growth, I'm 6'2" and 250lbs so I'm obviously fine) when the time come in my life where I actually have kids. Personally I enjoy taking apart broken paintball guns and repairing them as well as weight lifting to relax, because afterwards I know I have accomplished some thing.

[flyweightnate]

I think it boils down to needing some form of worthwhile endeavor to pursue. I tinker, I woodwork, I draw, and I do athletic stuff- hiking, running, lifting, paintball, wrestling, submission grappling, frisbee. If it weren't for these, I would have no way to keep sane, trust me. There's just too much pressure on kids these days. Everyone needs a 4.0 and a list of extracurriculars a mile long to get a scholarship, and without a scholarship they need a full time job, and to have a job you need a car, and to afford the car AND college you need to be away 20 hours a day. Toss this together with a college workload previously unheard of (I'm at GT, and my dad says it looks like I'm working twice as hard as he did at MIT, '82 IIRC). All of a sudden 14-22 year olds have full blown adult lives, practically, with schedules, budgets and checkbooks, stress and insomnia, and pretty serious consequences for screwing it up.

Toss in hormones, and a lack of experience/ maturity. Assuming most of you have full time jobs, imagine if you a) were getting minimum wage, b) had 40 hours of classes to take each week, c) had obligations outside of those, d) had to deal with typical inane teenage banter, and then on top of this all had your minds clouded by hormones, girlfriends, etc. Hard to imagine NOT lashing out somehow.

I wrestled to deal with it all. I had to step it up to 2 seasons of wrestling, plus a summer of grappling to deal, and would play paintball in the "open" season. I'd sometimes spend a day in the workshop, eating peanut butter sandwiches and using a grinder to turn 6061 billet into something interesting. I'd draw for hours, and leave my ipod in my ears for days straight sometimes, because sometimes, I just needed to get away from it all.

If I didn't learn how to enjoy a few constructive outlets, to focus my entire mind on, to just shut out all the stress, I would take a more direct route. I'd cuss out my girlfriend, berate my teachers (well, I did to a few of em... they deserved it though), and probably fight every kid who looked at me funny. But the ability to focus on a chunk of metal or to body-drop an opponent in wrestling, that was "constructive" yet an excellent vent. I mean, wrestling... where else can you bounce someones head off the floor, then choke him out, and the authority figures say, "Nice job, good match"? It's endeavors like this that the "crazies" have missed out on.

[faro]

Great point to the last posts, I never even touched that! Hobbies, sports and focusing on stimulating ones life positively helps keep our youth on track.
I grew up with out many hobbies for I was stick thin and honestly my self confidence was nil... again the punishment did do a lot to steer me right but rock climbing at 19 really helped too! With that I got into jogging and so on...
I just hope that North Americans realize that we are not evolving by being completely against spanking. Like I stated before spanking is fine but beating is not... some can say its up for interpretation but really spanking is minor physical pain with a strong psychological stimulus in attempt to make your child understand between right and wrong. Beating is a frustrated parent who lacks the patience, self awareness to spend time and energy guiding a child.

Faro aka Dirty Bangoli

P.S. Have a wonderful Long weekend all... "May your shots land on target and the condom never break!" now that is up for interpretation