General

[Fridaddy]

Originally Posted by flyweightnate

As far as the issue with paintball gear, I can definitely see two sides to the issue. California, you cannot own a black paintball gun legally, I've heard... or maybe buy a new black one, or something. That's a freakin good idea. If all the paintball guns are odd colors, not much of a chance for confusion, is there? Of course, Tippmann would go out of business, but... haha.

Uhhhh, no, not true.

[SnowDawgy]

So some bad things have happened so we will neuter the entire population and make everyone scared of each other and everything. Yeah this is not the type of response terrorists wanted no not at all exactly why a terrorist strikes a target. Holy Hell you armedicans have worked for hundreds of years for freedom and rights and in the wake of 9-11 and some school shootings gave it all away without question and now live in a police state without even realizing it. Must make intelligent Americans weep. Good thing he didn't have a bible in his backpack as well or they would have shot him on the spot for being a religious zelot. Damned kids daring to live and learn more than what in in the ciriculum!

I am surprised the karnivor program had not sniffed this kid out for having gone to pball sites on his computer, shame on The Man for not putting this dangerous criminal down sooner.

My Canadian perspective on issues like this.

[Warwitch]

Heh, I got suspended for my Junior year final exams for plotting to shoot up the Senior parking lot on their last day. I can laugh about it now, but Im lucky I didnt get arrested. Ahh, the 80's, those were the good ol days....

[Mr. Furious]

Originally Posted by SnowDawgy

So some bad things have happened so we will neuter the entire population and make everyone scared of each other and everything. Yeah this is not the type of response terrorists wanted no not at all exactly why a terrorist strikes a target. Holy Hell you armedicans have worked for hundreds of years for freedom and rights and in the wake of 9-11 and some school shootings gave it all away without question and now live in a police state without even realizing it. Must make intelligent Americans weep. Good thing he didn't have a bible in his backpack as well or they would have shot him on the spot for being a religious zelot. Damned kids daring to live and learn more than what in in the ciriculum!

I am surprised the karnivor program had not sniffed this kid out for having gone to pball sites on his computer, shame on The Man for not putting this dangerous criminal down sooner.

My Canadian perspective on issues like this.

So, how many school shootings will justify tighter security and zero tolerance policies in your opinion? How many more Columbines before you feel that zero tolerance for weapons or weapon-like items in schools is reasonable? It's not about taking away freedoms, it's about making sure that when we send our kids to school we feel they are as safe as they are at home. No one said the kid had no right to possess paintball equipment, no one said he shouldn't be able to experience paintball in the proper setting but bringing something to school that resembles a gun, bomb, knife or anything else that can cause panic or fear is unacceptable and in this day and age it cannot be assumed that it was an innocent mistake because the evidence shows that almost every school attack was well planned and rehearsed with "dummy" weapons and bombs before the actual attack was carried out.

Do you have children in school? If not then you can't appreciate how it feels to drop your kids off at school the day after a monster holds a classroom hostage, shoots kids and then rapes young girls while the class watches. Or how it feels to see breaking news on CNN about a school shooting somewhere and wonder if the people involved were networking with other students across the country and planning the same thing. How about the copycats who want to kill themselves but want to be "famous" so they take out as many kids and teachers as they can before pulling the trigger on themselves?

We spent too many years and lost too many children due to being reactive rather than proactive to school violence and people were outraged that more wasn't done before the attacks took place. Now we are proactive and have zero tolerance policies to prevent more of these occurrences and people say we are in a police state? It's unfortunate that things are the way they are now but if a broad list of restricted items and zero tolerance for possession of those items means that just one more child comes home from school then I think it's worth it.

[davidwirth]

Originally Posted by Mr. Furious

So, how many school shootings will justify tighter security and zero tolerance policies in your opinion? How many more Columbines before you feel that zero tolerance for weapons or weapon-like items in schools is reasonable? It's not about taking away freedoms, it's about making sure that when we send our kids to school we feel they are as safe as they are at home. No one said the kid had no right to possess paintball equipment, no one said he shouldn't be able to experience paintball in the proper setting but bringing something to school that resembles a gun, bomb, knife or anything else that can cause panic or fear is unacceptable and in this day and age it cannot be assumed that it was an innocent mistake because the evidence shows that almost every school attack was well planned and rehearsed with "dummy" weapons and bombs before the actual attack was carried out.

Do you have children in school? If not then you can't appreciate how it feels to drop your kids off at school the day after a monster holds a classroom hostage, shoots kids and then rapes young girls while the class watches. Or how it feels to see breaking news on CNN about a school shooting somewhere and wonder if the people involved were networking with other students across the country and planning the same thing. How about the copycats who want to kill themselves but want to be "famous" so they take out as many kids and teachers as they can before pulling the trigger on themselves?

We spent too many years and lost too many children due to being reactive rather than proactive to school violence and people were outraged that more wasn't done before the attacks took place. Now we are proactive and have zero tolerance policies to prevent more of these occurrences and people say we are in a police state? It's unfortunate that things are the way they are now but if a broad list of restricted items and zero tolerance for possession of those items means that just one more child comes home from school then I think it's worth it.

I think, though actually school shootings are very very rare. Its the fact that when they do happen they get a lot of air time. Personally I don't see the advantage of having a no gun zone at school because if they are going to shoot it up, the little sign over the door isn't going to stop them. How many is too many? Is one 2 many? If so, we need to out law swimming pools cars bicycles and a host of other things to stop the death and carnage. More kids are killed with cars than guns. More kids drown each year then are killed by guns. Where does it stop. I mean look at the bus accident how many kids died there? School buses don't have seat belts. In my car my child has to be in a car seat or belted in or I will be cited for child endangerment, but when I have to send them to the government indoctrination camp (ie public school) they get on a bus with no safety equipment. So evidently I am not a save enough drive or intelligent enough t protect my child in my own car but that bus driver is? Go figure

[Mr. Furious]

Originally Posted by davidwirth

I think, though actually school shootings are very very rare. Its the fact that when they do happen they get a lot of air time. Personally I don't see the advantage of having a no gun zone at school because if they are going to shoot it up, the little sign over the door isn't going to stop them. How many is too many? Is one 2 many? If so, we need to out law swimming pools cars bicycles and a host of other things to stop the death and carnage. More kids are killed with cars than guns. More kids drown each year then are killed by guns. Where does it stop. I mean look at the bus accident how many kids died there? School buses don't have seat belts. In my car my child has to be in a car seat or belted in or I will be cited for child endangerment, but when I have to send them to the government indoctrination camp (ie public school) they get on a bus with no safety equipment. So evidently I am not a save enough drive or intelligent enough t protect my child in my own car but that bus driver is? Go figure

School shootings are very rare and schools generally are safe. But due to the nature of these high profile attacks there are a lot of copycats and when one incident occurs it seems that a rash of them follows. Yes, a person intent on killing kids and staff at school will find a way to make it happen but you can catch a lot of people that are attempting it on the spur of the moment or just didn't plan it out well enough or were too dumb to keep quiet about their plans before the day they attempted it. There were quite a few shootings a couple years ago where other students admitted after the fact that the shooter mentioned their plans to them but for whatever reason they never told anyone. Proactive security at a school can prevent those attacks so IMHO it's a good thing.

Many people here seem upset that the kid got busted carrying part of a paintball gun to school. If he was carrying a few cardboard tubes with shoelaces sticking out the end and a digital watch attached to them the item would have been just as harmless but it could have had the same effect of causing fear in those who saw it but did not know what it was. If this was a cardboard tube and digital watch enthusiasts' forum I'm sure equal outrage would be displayed for "the man" busting an innocent cardboard tube and digital watch hobbyist. But for those who are not cardboard tube and digital watch enthusiasts it would be viewed differently. If he had brought the carboard tubes & etc to school I don't think people would be so quick to dismiss that maybe he was trying to see what he could get away with or on a dry run before a real attack was attempted. The fact of the matter is we will never know what his intentions were and neither did the school administrators that called the police. Any kid old enough to play paintball should know that paintball guns or parts of them can look like real guns and school is not the place for those items.

BTW: I think that school buses need seatbelts.

[mojojojoaf]

Originally Posted by Mr. Furious

Do you have children in school? If not then you can't appreciate how it feels to drop your kids off at school the day after a monster holds a classroom hostage, shoots kids and then rapes young girls while the class watches. Or how it feels to see breaking news on CNN about a school shooting somewhere and wonder if the people involved were networking with other students across the country and planning the same thing. How about the copycats who want to kill themselves but want to be "famous" so they take out as many kids and teachers as they can before pulling the trigger on themselves?

Exactly.

I would hazard a guess that a good majority of the "I am outraged" at the "overeaction" of the police comments come from people who are:
1) Juvenile themselves
2) Older and juvenile themselves
3) Have no children and no understanding of the fears parents live with
4) Believe that freedom and liberties have no limits and are without consequence.

However I wish I lived in their happy perfect world, I am sure its beautiful.

[davidwirth]

Originally Posted by mojojojoaf

Exactly.

I would hazard a guess that a good majority of the "I am outraged" at the "overeaction" of the police comments come from people who are:
1) Juvenile themselves
2) Older and juvenile themselves
3) Have no children and no understanding of the fears parents live with
4) Believe that freedom and liberties have no limits and are without consequence.

However I wish I lived in their happy perfect world, I am sure its beautiful.

1. no
2. yes
3. yes
4. yes freedom and liberties have no limits UNTIL they infringe on another's by this, if your freedom and liberty denies the freedom or liberty of someone else. The only limit is when it takes from another. So, you can still believe number 4 and conclude that the punk got his just reward because he was introducing fear into the school where the students should feel safe.

and yes believe he should be busted. If I see someone walking down my street with a rifle slung over their shoulder, a cop will be called and the time before they actually respond to the federally sponsored dial- prayer, I am keeping the guy in my cross-hairs from my rifle on the second floor.

Rember, administations at schools are too stupid to make any logical decisions otherwise they would be trusted to. Since they are not trusted to make decisions or think for themselves, we must assume that the law makers who pass the no tolerance laws be that either the school board or the state leg. must think that the school administators are stupid.

[Robertsr]

You cannot stop a madman who is willing to die no matter how many liberties you take away from the population.

Your child and my children are more likely to be struck by lightning than shot at school.

just sayin'...

[SnowDawgy]

I would hazard a guess that a good majority of the "I am outraged" at the "overeaction" of the police comments come from people who are:
1) Juvenile themselves
2) Older and juvenile themselves
3) Have no children and no understanding of the fears parents live with
4) Believe that freedom and liberties have no limits and are without consequence.
However I wish I lived in their happy perfect world, I am sure its beautiful.

1. No I am 40
2. see 1
3. yes I have children.
4. Freedom always costs and 2 world wars attest to that.

So you would rather live in fear than accept that it IS a big bad world out there, it always has been even back in the " good ole days" but if you let fear rule your life because of media hype, well hell why let your kids outside, or watch tv, or do anything? You kid can die falling down the stairs, at a family picnick (it happened in our family). But you have to live, you have to be able to do things. And saying this kid created a fear environment becuase he was dumb and a kid no I don't think so. Creating a fear environment implys you were scaring ppl threatening them etc. this was way overboard and a fear reaction. Because shootings happen now you jump right to there must be a plan, kid is suicidal, gotta get swatt......holy hell I am glad I don't think like that I would never leave the damned house, and if I was a teacher and thought like that I would have to quit that field. Kids are dumbasses, I know the ones I went to school were, and some are nuts, well so are some adults, but because I hear about road rage and drive by shootings doesnt mean I am afraid to drive, or get in my car, or need bullet proof glass and doors. That every guy I cut off and see reaching for his glove box I assume he might be going for a gun....again, personally I am glad I don't think like that and won't live like that. Because if you do, you are giving in to what these kids that did shootings wanted, and what terrorists want. Is it an over reacation hell yes, talk to someone from Ireland where terrorism was a daily thing, do you think they went as nuts as the US is in fear, nope. Look at the UK they have more terrorist incidents than the US by a factor of probably 1000, do they over react to daily life incidents, nope. Just saying think about how real these fears are or if you are giving into a percieved reality. Perception is NOT truth no matter how much TV tells you it is homer. Again just my 2 cents, don't snap and go get a gun ok

And yes there is still a tremendously beautiful world out there even with all the uglyness.