General

[Mar]

I really cannot believe that this has become a serious discussion....

[Party of A-5]

Me neither.

Originally Posted by mojojojoaf

Exactly.

I would hazard a guess that a good majority of the "I am outraged" at the "overeaction" of the police comments come from people who are:
1) Juvenile themselves
2) Older and juvenile themselves
3) Have no children../snip

And that somehow makes their opinions any less valid and important?

[Mr. Furious]

Originally Posted by SnowDawgy

1. No I am 40
2. see 1
3. yes I have children.
4. Freedom always costs and 2 world wars attest to that.

So you would rather live in fear than accept that it IS a big bad world out there, it always has been even back in the " good ole days" but if you let fear rule your life because of media hype, well hell why let your kids outside, or watch tv, or do anything? You kid can die falling down the stairs, at a family picnick (it happened in our family). But you have to live, you have to be able to do things. And saying this kid created a fear environment becuase he was dumb and a kid no I don't think so. Creating a fear environment implys you were scaring ppl threatening them etc. this was way overboard and a fear reaction. Because shootings happen now you jump right to there must be a plan, kid is suicidal, gotta get swatt......holy hell I am glad I don't think like that I would never leave the damned house, and if I was a teacher and thought like that I would have to quit that field. Kids are dumbasses, I know the ones I went to school were, and some are nuts, well so are some adults, but because I hear about road rage and drive by shootings doesnt mean I am afraid to drive, or get in my car, or need bullet proof glass and doors. That every guy I cut off and see reaching for his glove box I assume he might be going for a gun....again, personally I am glad I don't think like that and won't live like that. Because if you do, you are giving in to what these kids that did shootings wanted, and what terrorists want. Is it an over reacation hell yes, talk to someone from Ireland where terrorism was a daily thing, do you think they went as nuts as the US is in fear, nope. Look at the UK they have more terrorist incidents than the US by a factor of probably 1000, do they over react to daily life incidents, nope. Just saying think about how real these fears are or if you are giving into a percieved reality. Perception is NOT truth no matter how much TV tells you it is homer. Again just my 2 cents, don't snap and go get a gun ok

And yes there is still a tremendously beautiful world out there even with all the uglyness.

I believe the world is a beautiful place but I also KNOW that it can be a dangerous place. The jungle is a beautiful place as is the desert but there is no way I would turn my kids loose there and leave them to the mercy of mother nature. Believe it or not you can still experience the beauty and be safe at the same time. It's kind of like enjoying jumping out of the airplane but still having a parachute on so you can live to do it again.

So since a kid can die falling on the stairs do you put up a baby gate or just let the toddler live to experience life and figure "That's life..." when he or she dies of a preventable injury. Do you believe in seat belts or do accidents only happen to people other than you? We're not talking about making schools supermax prisons, were talking about a few proactive measures that may prevent kids and school staff from being hurt, killed or traumatized. I can't figure out why you think that's a bad idea. I wish I lived in the world as you view it because it sounds a helluva lot nicer than the one I know exists based on my own experiences.

If someone wants to take over a plane or go on a shooting spree in a mall, there is a good chance that most of the persons in the aircraft or building will be adults that may have a fighting chance at stopping the attack. In a school the ratio of adults to children is such that most of the people in the building are kids that are unable to defend themselves or act to stop an attack. That is why security at schools is so important.

Fear is about perception. If a kid sees a monster in the closet it's a monster until mom or dad turns on the light and shows them that it's just a stuffed animal and shadows. If someone in the school saw the part of the paintball gun and thought it was part or all of a real gun, they had the same fear as if it was a real gun. Kids have a right to go to school and not be scared. The kid with the paintball gun grip took that right away from all the kids that were upset by what he carried to school.

It amazes me that so many will fight so hard to defend the actions of the idiots who are doing more damage to the sport we all enjoy than the folks doing their best to restrict it legally.

[mojojojoaf]

Originally Posted by SnowDawgy

1. No I am 40
2. see 1
3. yes I have children.
4. Freedom always costs and 2 world wars attest to that.

So you would rather live in fear than accept that it IS a big bad world out there, it always has been even back in the " good ole days" but if you let fear rule your life because of media hype, well hell why let your kids outside, or watch tv, or do anything? You kid can die falling down the stairs, at a family picnick (it happened in our family). But you have to live, you have to be able to do things. And saying this kid created a fear environment becuase he was dumb and a kid no I don't think so. Creating a fear environment implys you were scaring ppl threatening them etc. this was way overboard and a fear reaction. Because shootings happen now you jump right to there must be a plan, kid is suicidal, gotta get swatt......holy hell I am glad I don't think like that I would never leave the damned house, and if I was a teacher and thought like that I would have to quit that field. Kids are dumbasses, I know the ones I went to school were, and some are nuts, well so are some adults, but because I hear about road rage and drive by shootings doesnt mean I am afraid to drive, or get in my car, or need bullet proof glass and doors. That every guy I cut off and see reaching for his glove box I assume he might be going for a gun....again, personally I am glad I don't think like that and won't live like that. Because if you do, you are giving in to what these kids that did shootings wanted, and what terrorists want. Is it an over reacation hell yes, talk to someone from Ireland where terrorism was a daily thing, do you think they went as nuts as the US is in fear, nope. Look at the UK they have more terrorist incidents than the US by a factor of probably 1000, do they over react to daily life incidents, nope. Just saying think about how real these fears are or if you are giving into a percieved reality. Perception is NOT truth no matter how much TV tells you it is homer. Again just my 2 cents, don't snap and go get a gun ok

And yes there is still a tremendously beautiful world out there even with all the uglyness.

I had to read your comments a few time but I see your point. I thought it was a flame but your point is clearer that I actually read it a couple of times.

Living in fear? I didn't mean living in fear for fear of being controlled but fear for my children in regards to.... shootings at school, kids bringing things that don't belong at school, police responding to a call when someone is identified with a potentially harmful item in their position?

I will admit the sarcasm was a bit heavy on my last comment "However I wish I lived in their happy perfect world, I am sure its beautiful."

It is a beautiful world.

But I appreciate it when police are called to show up at a school that they should never had to show up at. As stated before, its not this kid's liberties that were infringed- it was the teachers, the childrens, the administrators, the parents and the public in general whose liberties were infringed upon.

edit: And I just got an email from a coworker who's son has been missing since 400pm yesterday. /sigh.

[Mr. Furious]

Originally Posted by Party of A-5

Me neither.



And that somehow makes their opinions any less valid and important?

It doesn't make your opinions any less valid. But when you have kids your perception and views on just about everything change drastically and if you don't have kids you are not able to appreciate things from a parent's point of view. Life experiences also change your point of view and perception of things so as you get older things that used to seem stupid or pointless suddenly become very important.

I don't think Mojo was saying that being a juvenile invailidates your opinions. Rather he was saying that as a kid(teenager, whatever) you cannot appreciate the point of view of an adult or parent. Remember, the old guys have been in your shoes at one time but you have not yet been in ours.

[Party of A-5]

Originally Posted by Mr. Furious

Remember, the old guys have been in your shoes at one time but you have not been in ours.

I think your assuming i'm a young'n.

[austinvuichard]

At our school, one of my friends whom I happen to play paintball with, brought paintballs with him one day last year. On that day there was a drug search. It jsut so ahppens that the drug dogs were attracted to the scent so the cops had to pull him out of class... The completely tore apart his truck trying to find something. All they found were the paintballs.

[Mr. Furious]

Originally Posted by austinvuichard

At our school, one of my friends whom I happen to play paintball with, brought paintballs with him one day last year. On that day there was a drug search. It jsut so ahppens that the drug dogs were attracted to the scent so the cops had to pull him out of class... The completely tore apart his truck trying to find something. All they found were the paintballs.

The gelatin in paintballs and in medicine capsules is the same stuff so I can see that happening.

[davidwirth]

the important question is "did they put his truck back together or did they do the typical thing when they can't find anything, leaving you to clean up the mess they made?"

[FerreT]

A student of mine had air-soft pistols in his truck and he only got a week of OSS. At my school, with permission of an administrator, students can bring in things (like paintball equipment exc) to be worked on. I had a student last semester bring in a flintlock pistol grip to work on and stain. This is a really abnormal situation, I don't think the media tells the whole story (surprise surprise). It doesn't mention if this student had prior offenses with brining things to school or not or if he is a student who is frequently in trouble. Lets face it, students who commit multiple offenses at a school are treated differently then those whom had never had any disciplinary action. I think it's dumb they are pressing charges, but this may be a re-occurring thing with this student and he had been told you do it again we will press charges.