Draxxus Reg Exploded in the Netherlands - Page 8

Schmitti · 04-07-2008, 03:12 PM

A while back we had a good conversation here when anothe rperson got killed by a fly-away CO2 tank... and basically it was suggested that the safest thing to do (next to banning the use of high pressure cylanders on our guns) would be to ban the use of screw in tanks. No matter what they are inherently dangerous as the reg/valve can seperate from the tank.... that and the fact that in the hands of an ignorant operator (which a lot of players are) you have a rocket launcher waiting to go off.

Now the numbers show that the chance of someone getting injured/killed by a tank/reg seperation are very low... we can count the number of times this has happened on two hands at most.... and that is for the how many millions of times paintball has been played by individuals.

At somepoint we have to put some trust (unfortunately or not) in our fellow players and believe that they take absolute care in their gear. I would think that a person saying they hand snugged a tank reg on would make most of us cringe a lot less than using a hammer to tighten it.

Personally there are people I see out there at staging areas that I end up moving far away from... they leave fresh filled CO2 tanks in the sun, they come back to the table and throw their gun on the table with the tank screwed in.. etc.

We pretty much need to self policein our sport and at some point we need to say "this is as safe as I can do it"

E

angrysasquatch · 04-07-2008, 05:06 PM

Rail-mounted only systems are a great idea. It would be easy enough to make the standard ASA on/off and quick disconnect (or macro) only, and the field to distribute said ASAs and locktite your screw-in onto it. Then plaster it in stickers to keep someone from ttrying to force the tank to unscrew and unscrew the wrong part in the process. Then all new regs sold must be rail mount.

I think that all these problems stem from paintball self-policing itself. It has obviously done a pretty crummy job so far, if there were laws and standards in place pertaining to who and how this stuff should be done, it would be done far less by the general public. The problem is, one field/store might be too stringent with the current self-policing system, forcing little Johnny to take his business elsewhere to a more shoddy field. The field that might have had harder rules realizes this, and is therefore brought down to the lax rules of the shoddy field. With a standard, there would be none of that, and the better field may well have had the legal means to take Johnny's unsafe tank so that he couldn't fill it on his buddy's scuba tanks. I realize that I am no angel in this regard, but I have the understanding and discipline to keep myself and others safe.

There is no reason that paintball fields can't get a perfect safety record with regard to paintballs hurting somebody seriously or air tanks. It is done in a controlled environment, why aren't the results controlled? Obviously somebody can always trip and smash their head on a rock, but if paintball is able to bring injuries down to human klutziness, then at least we're on par with othere sports.

Raion · 04-07-2008, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmitti

Darwinism at it's finest.... it will catch up to you in the end.

E

it's funny that you say that. I'm an engineer :-P

but it's not like i beat it. I just tap it. I can't tighten it like most men cause I'm a girl and I also have a disease .. and part of that I have low grip strength. I am pretty sure I am not going to break it because I'm just tapping it. You can kinda just tell what is right when you do it as much as I have.

Schmitti · 04-07-2008, 05:46 PM

A strap wrench is probably the best proven way to tighten a reg... it of course involves removing all little things sticking off the reg body so you can get the wrench on... so you have to remove the fill nipple and the guage (and on double reg'd you have to remove both gauges) which is a hastle and a half to do when you are in a hurry... so what can you use to add just a little bit of force to snug up the reg to the tank? Light taps to the fill nipple... the fill nipple gets tapped about a half inch from the outside of the reg body.. the base of the fill nipple is about a half inch or so from the axis of the reg... so now you are an inch from the axis of the reg (or 0.08333') so you tap it with about a pound (1 lb) worth of force.. gets you 0.08333' ft/lbs of energy.

Not a whole lot of torque in the grand scheme of things... but....

E

Jordan · 04-07-2008, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raion

it's funny that you say that. I'm an engineer :-P

As an automotive mechanic, you don't want to hear my opinion of engineers.

Jordan

Raion · 04-07-2008, 06:57 PM

oh, you dont want to hear my opinion of automotive mechanics either

angrysasquatch · 04-07-2008, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmitti

so you tap it with about a pound (1 lb) worth of force.. gets you 0.08333' ft/lbs of energy.

Not a whole lot of torque in the grand scheme of things... but....

E

no, that would be the torque, were you to set a 1 pound object on the end of the fill nipple. With a hammer, it has a certain amount of energy from the swing (someone setting a hammer on your head vs. tapping your head with the same hammer). Becomes much more interesting with a moving hammer because 1. you gemerally don't know what speed the hammer is doing at impact and 2. the fill nipple will deflect, effectively decreasing the torque which you thought would be applied. There's a reason that you pull slowly on torque wrenches.

A more accurate jimmy method of doing it would be to put an allen key down the barrel of the fill nipple and use a correctly sized weight on the end of your new moment arm. Then you could use the formula Schmitti specified.

Jordan · 04-07-2008, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raion

oh, you dont want to hear my opinion of automotive mechanics either

Probably very similar to mine.

I have a very low opinion of other mechanics - partly why I became one, so I could work on my own vehicles and not have to rely on others.

Jordan

Raion · 04-07-2008, 08:03 PM

I'll just keep doing it my way. If something happens, it's my fault .. but I truly doubt anything will.

nels0nb4s3d · 04-07-2008, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raion

it looks like he dropped the tanke (see the top of reg).

umm dude... the top of the reg hit the wall when the thing exploded lol

04-07-2008, 03:12 PM	#71 (permalink)
Schmitti Red=Moderator Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Schen. NY	A while back we had a good conversation here when anothe rperson got killed by a fly-away CO2 tank... and basically it was suggested that the safest thing to do (next to banning the use of high pressure cylanders on our guns) would be to ban the use of screw in tanks. No matter what they are inherently dangerous as the reg/valve can seperate from the tank.... that and the fact that in the hands of an ignorant operator (which a lot of players are) you have a rocket launcher waiting to go off. Now the numbers show that the chance of someone getting injured/killed by a tank/reg seperation are very low... we can count the number of times this has happened on two hands at most.... and that is for the how many millions of times paintball has been played by individuals. At somepoint we have to put some trust (unfortunately or not) in our fellow players and believe that they take absolute care in their gear. I would think that a person saying they hand snugged a tank reg on would make most of us cringe a lot less than using a hammer to tighten it. Personally there are people I see out there at staging areas that I end up moving far away from... they leave fresh filled CO2 tanks in the sun, they come back to the table and throw their gun on the table with the tank screwed in.. etc. We pretty much need to self policein our sport and at some point we need to say "this is as safe as I can do it" E __________________ Gone fishing

04-07-2008, 05:46 PM	#74 (permalink)
Schmitti Red=Moderator Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Schen. NY	A strap wrench is probably the best proven way to tighten a reg... it of course involves removing all little things sticking off the reg body so you can get the wrench on... so you have to remove the fill nipple and the guage (and on double reg'd you have to remove both gauges) which is a hastle and a half to do when you are in a hurry... so what can you use to add just a little bit of force to snug up the reg to the tank? Light taps to the fill nipple... the fill nipple gets tapped about a half inch from the outside of the reg body.. the base of the fill nipple is about a half inch or so from the axis of the reg... so now you are an inch from the axis of the reg (or 0.08333') so you tap it with about a pound (1 lb) worth of force.. gets you 0.08333' ft/lbs of energy. Not a whole lot of torque in the grand scheme of things... but.... E __________________ Gone fishing

04-07-2008, 06:57 PM	#76 (permalink)
Raion Official PBN Translator Join Date: Jan 2007	oh, you dont want to hear my opinion of automotive mechanics either __________________ WTB Dye Titanium back in cocker threads ! Also want a cocker boomstick back in cocker threads. FEEDBACK

04-07-2008, 08:03 PM	#79 (permalink)
Raion Official PBN Translator Join Date: Jan 2007	I'll just keep doing it my way. If something happens, it's my fault .. but I truly doubt anything will. __________________ WTB Dye Titanium back in cocker threads ! Also want a cocker boomstick back in cocker threads. FEEDBACK

04-07-2008, 05:06 PM	#72 (permalink)
angrysasquatch Newbie Join Date: Oct 2006	Rail-mounted only systems are a great idea. It would be easy enough to make the standard ASA on/off and quick disconnect (or macro) only, and the field to distribute said ASAs and locktite your screw-in onto it. Then plaster it in stickers to keep someone from ttrying to force the tank to unscrew and unscrew the wrong part in the process. Then all new regs sold must be rail mount. I think that all these problems stem from paintball self-policing itself. It has obviously done a pretty crummy job so far, if there were laws and standards in place pertaining to who and how this stuff should be done, it would be done far less by the general public. The problem is, one field/store might be too stringent with the current self-policing system, forcing little Johnny to take his business elsewhere to a more shoddy field. The field that might have had harder rules realizes this, and is therefore brought down to the lax rules of the shoddy field. With a standard, there would be none of that, and the better field may well have had the legal means to take Johnny's unsafe tank so that he couldn't fill it on his buddy's scuba tanks. I realize that I am no angel in this regard, but I have the understanding and discipline to keep myself and others safe. There is no reason that paintball fields can't get a perfect safety record with regard to paintballs hurting somebody seriously or air tanks. It is done in a controlled environment, why aren't the results controlled? Obviously somebody can always trip and smash their head on a rock, but if paintball is able to bring injuries down to human klutziness, then at least we're on par with othere sports.