General

[billytehgoat]

Originally Posted by thkyle

Ah, I see this is your first post on MCB. May I be the first to welcome you to the community.

I feel that the reason that this is such a hot issue is not the legitimate legal reasons, nor is it that people are up in arms over the evils of porn. It's simply this.........

I think there's a lot of people would just love to PBN take one on the chin! Maybe see them get a little "payback" from the FBI, for the way that they've been treated over there in the past. A little "what goes around comes around!"

Just that simple.

oh, i was gonna say i didn't think they'd be able to get in trouble for that, but i understand. what did they do anyway to make people so mad?

[stevedavidson]

I can't tell if some of you guys are being shills, ignorant or are genuinely confused.

The issue is not who broke the story first
The issue is not whether some people have a personal beef with PBN or not
The issue is not whether TB is a badman or not
The issue is not adults trading porn, looking at porn or 'using' porn

The issue should not be confused with some lameass 'service providers are not responsible for content posted by users' dodge
(service providers ARE responsible if they FAIL to act within a reasonable period of time and/or if the activity is persistent and they do nothing about it. AOL got gigged for trying that dodge BECAUSE they took a 'don't ask, don't tell' policy.)

STOP TRYING TO DISTRACT FROM THE REAL ISSUE.

The real issue is that minors were aided and abetted in comitting inappropriate activities on that forum through, at a minimum, gross negligence on the part of moderators who routinely allowed violations of the TOS to occur. Activity that should have been known to administrators/owners of that site, since it was going on for YEARS.

The only way this can be rectified is if PBN purges all of their threads, splits the site into 'adult membership' and 'open membership', requires a credit card or other form of valid age certification and prevents minors from engaging in or being exposed to activities and content that they should not have access to.

Some people are whining that the publication of this story is 'bad for the industry'. How "bad for the industry" is it if mom and dad start thinking of paintball as the home of internet porn? Lord knows what's going on at the fields they've been using as a babysitting service if this is what happens on the web.

If you REALLY care about paintball's future and you think that PBN is such an integral part of that future, instead of attacking the story, you should be DEMANDING that PBN clean up its act and step up to doing things right.

[heinous]

Now you know why I never pay any website to get any benefits.

Originally Posted by stupiddogg

are you kidding me? WTF they are banning folks for pointing out the obvious and because some folks spoke the truth?

I mean I know Harb you left them a year ago, because they weren't hearing the truth and all but now because TB posted the news they are banning for the truth? What is this 1984?
If they are they can kick rocks! I for one have paid their ASM and benefited from their site peddling my pb crap but after all this they can kick rocks.......
Im ready to be banned, bring it


grrr,

BBQ, Beers, and PBN politics dont MIX!


SD

[billytehgoat]

umm, i'm a genuinly confused person, iread through all of this, but i thought they already did take care of it. and what's the deal with deleting or purging or whatever they were talking about on world of tb?

[thkyle]

Originally Posted by billytehgoat

what did they do anyway to make people so mad?

I don't think there's a simple answer for that. Some of it is possibly anger, some is hurt feelings, victims of "double standard" posting policies, pride, a lot of snobbery, the "Bill Gates syndrome" or envy for being so successful, the big evil empire.

I guess there's a lot of people that just like to see a good train wreck once in a while! Scandal always makes good headlines. Why oh why do people waste precious time watching Judge Judy???

If there's been an underground cesspool of porn open to minors, and it can be proven that people in charge have used their authority to enabled it, then the rule of law needs to be enforced.

[billytehgoat]

Originally Posted by thkyle

I guess there's a lot of people that just like to see a good train wreck once in a while! Scandal always makes good headlines. Why oh why do people waste precious time watching Judge Judy???

well that makes sense. and the underground porn ring sounds a bit like a conspiricy theory to me, why would they enable it, than fire their own employees for it? but i'm still confused whats the big deal about deleting things?

[thundertb]

Originally Posted by yellowhammer

I think you've hit the nail on the head. While I think it's a very serious issue, I also think there are lots of people, for various reasons, that would like to make a lot more out of it than it really is. It's sad to see this happen over there. But IMO, it's almost just as sad to see people with an ax to grind and an agenda trying to milk it for all it's worth. I find it all very petty. But that's what hate and bitterness does to people.

What axe do I have to grind? I do not run a competitive site and I don't care how much money Ed Rieker has. However I do care about his attitude and his attempts to silence people he doesn't like all the while charging for things that aren't true.

Here are some thoughts: Why porno? Because it drives traffic, the same as the drama he creates. In fact, this incident has probably added 100,000+ hits to his site since he tracks each page view as a hit.

But here is a link for you on the open forum by a Mod:

The Sex Guide v4.0 - Updated! - PbNation

Why? Do you want your 14 or 15 year old son reading that? And that is the tip of the iceberg. I am going to post a comment made by someone on my site and this should explain a lot.

"What is really disingenuous is the characterization of the thread as a "traditional pbn girls" forum for the distribution of innocent family photos. Does Ed think everyone is stupid?

First, the "pbn girls" thread is specifically for the distribution of sexy and often erotic photos of scantily clad women and girls for the amusement of the mostly male readership. It's very juvenile, and 100% prurient in it's intent. If the thread were merely for sharing prom-night pics, as Ed suggests, it would not require a private thread.

Second, the thread is a clearly a "perk" for the supporting members. If it weren't, there would be a thread just like this in the general non-pb discussion area. But the fact is, it's a totally private area that has been hidden away for good reason. It's an incentive for young boys (and dirty old men) looking for jerk-off material to make an annual PBN contribution.

Third, even if taken at face value - and you would have to be an idiot to do so - but if you are so inclined, we are still talking about the organized and condoned distribution of private photos of women and under-aged girls generally without their consent or knowledge. This alone may be illegal in certain jurisdictions if any of the photos were taken privately - meaning, not in a public place. A sexy photo of your girlfriend in your home may have a reasonable expectation of privacy.

Finally, the worst part of all this is that Ed is actually denying a well known fact about this PBN thread - that its sole purpose is to distribute porn, that is it's only purpose, and that has always been it's purpose.

But if Ed is anything, he's a businessman. He has attempted to commercialize and monetize every aspect of his so-called paintball "community", and everyone knows that porn does sell.

Unfortunately for poor Ed, he's completely failed to realize that all online communities have a lifespan. Eventually they collapse from squabbles, poor management, and greed. Ed has been accomplishing all of these quite well.

The "coup de grace" is always the same thing - the rampant egos of the owner(s) who somehow think "they" have created something that is both unique and persistent. The reality of 99% of all online communities is that they are neither. They can be recreated with minimal expertise by almost anyone. They cost little to start up and maintain. They all come and go with great frequency.

But the most important thing that owners forget is that it's the user base that makes and breaks them. Experienced scenario players have already fled PBN, and much better sites already exist, such as PB Junkie who actually maintains a complete and comprehensive schedule of every major producer - about the most basic information there can be, and something PBN has never done, choosing instead to commercialize "ups" as if that actually serves the scenario community in any way.

What Ed is left with is a majority of newbs and kids who can barely write a sentence, and the quality of discourse is generally so poor that it's not even worth a quick read. Small time producer "ads" and stupid newbie questions - not really a community at all any more. It was never a place for scenario players, and as poorly managed as it is, it never will be."

I am not trying milk anything and I am not bitter or petty about any of this. Again, where I am concerned, I am neither a former mod nor am I defending any of them. However lots of them are talking to me as are other people who are giving me their PB Nation horror stories.

[heinous]

Originally Posted by billytehgoat

well that makes sense. and the underground porn ring sounds a bit like a conspiricy theory to me, why would they enable it, than fire their own employees for it? but i'm still confused whats the big deal about deleting things?

Cmon. Underlings are used as scapegoats all the time.

I think the big deal about deleting things is, they delete things they don't like people to know.

yes, it is legal for them to do so because it is a private website. The problem is when paintballers go online most of them go to pbn. silencing someone on pbn effectively silences him totally due to PBN's "monopoly" on the voice of paintball online. the pbn'ers will never hear that side of the story. It is legal for PBN to do this, but it is also to the disadvantage of Joe User.

Can they silence people? Yes. But it doesn't mean they should. It's just a shady practice.

[thkyle]

Originally Posted by billytehgoat

well that makes sense. and the underground porn ring sounds a bit like a conspiricy theory to me, why would they enable it, than fire their own employees for it? but i'm still confused whats the big deal about deleting things?

To cover their butts, and look like they're doing the right thing.

Why do you think a lawyer tells his client to get a hair cut, a suit, keep their mouth shut, and act like they're sorry for what happened!

Deleting files would be an additional offense for destroying evidence. If they have nothing to hide, then why destroy any files?

[Ripperdoc]

I don't have an ax to grind. It's nothing personal. I'm just saying it's good my son wasn't involved or Ed and some mods would be making porn in a prison shower.