General

[heinous]

Originally Posted by AGDRetro

So right after I posted that last reply I decided to test 3 different kinds of paint from the fields I have been attending this year, those paints include:

RPS Polar Ice (orange/blue shell, orange fill)
Diablo Nightmare (red/yellow shell, yellow fill)
Hydra Fluid (blue/purple shell, blue fill)

The Polar Ice contained a TON of oil. This was picked up at one of Azzy's favorite fields here in PA. No Ti-oxide here.

The Nightmare contained a little bit of oil, again no Ti-oxide. This was from my home field.

The Hydra Fluid had virtually NO oil, but contained a tiny amount of the Ti-oxide (ity-bity white flakes). If you don't know where the blue paint is here in PA you need to check out more big games...

There are some brands, lets see more tests!

can you confirm that it is oil and not something else? maybe see if vegetable oil will mix or something...

[Party of A-5]

Originally Posted by AGDRetro

The Polar Ice contained a TON of oil. This was picked up at one of Azzy's favorite fields here in PA. No Ti-oxide here.

That does not surprise me in the least, considering what those balls are designed for.

I have found no oil in zap brand paintballs but a ton of the crap in balls made by XO.

More tests to follow.....

[paintslinger16]

I get that part but, not buying puts them out of business just the same, on the other hand saying hey clean it up we got room for you if you fix the product isn't that a better solution?...I don't know just my thoughts right now it's kind of like saying hey one of the cars that a major manufacture makes is unsafe and can harm you or the planet. We know this and can prove it but where not going to tell you which one......see where I am going?

Originally Posted by AGDRetro

Naming names would probably just cause more of a scene than Roland wanted at this point, I think he just wanted to throw the fact that this issue exists into the paintball community without starting a problem with any of the manufacturers.

This is a score to be settled by players and field owners testing the paint themselves and ONLY buying from manufacturers that sell us the no oil formula we really want! Let your money do the talking!

[AGDRetro]

Originally Posted by heinous

can you confirm that it is oil and not something else? maybe see if vegetable oil will mix or something...

Adding Crisco now...

[mustangii]

Originally Posted by HurtCow

I accidentally shot the black plastic over the instrument gauge on my motor scooter. I was shooting in the side yard where it was parked and 1 ball curved and hit it. That was 4 months ago, and the white stain still won't come off.

I wonder if paintballs will stain a rabbit.

I have a orange stained oppusum running around here. He just can't stay out of the cat's food

The last info I read was that some manufatures were using fish oil in their mixes, so you can play paintball and keep your heart in good shape if you eat them. omega 3's are good for you,


edm

[Fridaddy]

Getting out stains, I have always had good results with Oxyclean, All Free and Clear detergent, and running the washer on the gentle cycle with hot water. Let it soak for 20 min or so first.

[bubbajr.]

Originally Posted by HP_Lovecraft

Very interesting.
I remember some mixtures that used iodine in the old days. Those usually stained the worst.

Maybe its not really oil, but the process of adding the water to the paintballs forces something to come out of solution?

HP lovecraft I thought perhapes you had died of age by now. I guess I just wasn't visiting the right forums.

Is this recent change up in ball fill formula also making the difference in size we have seen in the past few years. I remember when barrel sizing kits first started hitting the major market you would see ball sizes all over the charts now they seem to be in a trend downwards depending on where you are at and of course who you are shooting. I don't have a particular problem with staining because I normally wash my gear on return from the field...an army thing. But the adverse environment problems that have been brought up trouble me. I have seen to many things that can hurt an area and dont want paintball fields to be on EPA watchlists.

[shives]

I can't believe w/ the number of "doubting thomases" and "consiracy theorists" on this forum that no one saw it. In the 5 minute time lapse, the cups changed volumes and colors.

Yes, you are right, that doesn't change the fact that the fill settled out. Something floated to the top. But, we don't know what that was. It might have been oil, but it might have been something else.

Look at a "lava lamp". The substance that floats up and down is wax. What determines if it floats or sinks? Temperature. Did the cups in the test change temperature over the course of the test.

If as Roland states, "the love of money is the root of all evil," wouldn't the paintball manufactures be looking to produce "cheap" paintballs. Using petroleum products, given the rising price for oil, would result in a more expensive product. Using something besides oil would cut their raw material costs giving them more profit.

What is the molecular weight of the PEG used in paintballs? Depending on the weight (see: polyethylene glycol: chemical product info at CHEMINDUSTRY.RU ), the water solubility will vary. What looks like oil over 5 minutes at room temperature could turn out to be just more in-soluble (higher molecular weight) PEG.

What is actually causing the staining? If you look at mineral oil, vegetable oil, and petroleum oil, depending on the degree of processing, they are clear. A PEG paintball w/ the old iodine dye of some older fills will still stain.

Any laundry detergent out there, as well as hand soaps and other cleaners, are designed to break up oil. Breaking up oil, and the surface tension of the water, is what allows the detergent to clean. A good rubn through the washing machine w/ any comercial detergent should get rid of the oils. What it can't get rid of is what stains. Look at blood stains. No oil there.

I'm ordinarily not this "pissy". I apologize to Roland, I mean no offense. My wife has a PhD in Molecular Immunology and Biochemestry, so I have a bit of a background. I have never liked when a "scientific experiment" puts itself out there as fact. Entirely too many variables are either not mentioned or not covered to put too much weight to this test. Is there oil in paintball, not arguing that. Is oil in paintballs bad for things (environment & gear), not arguing that.

I'm just saying...

Shives

[swampus422]

oh, thats the reason I still have two white stains on my tree.

[drg]

Originally Posted by shives

I can't believe w/ the number of "doubting thomases" and "consiracy theorists" on this forum that no one saw it. In the 5 minute time lapse, the cups changed volumes and colors.

Yes, you are right, that doesn't change the fact that the fill settled out. Something floated to the top. But, we don't know what that was. It might have been oil, but it might have been something else.

Look at a "lava lamp". The substance that floats up and down is wax. What determines if it floats or sinks? Temperature. Did the cups in the test change temperature over the course of the test.

If as Roland states, "the love of money is the root of all evil," wouldn't the paintball manufactures be looking to produce "cheap" paintballs. Using petroleum products, given the rising price for oil, would result in a more expensive product. Using something besides oil would cut their raw material costs giving them more profit.

What is the molecular weight of the PEG used in paintballs? Depending on the weight (see: polyethylene glycol: chemical product info at CHEMINDUSTRY.RU ), the water solubility will vary. What looks like oil over 5 minutes at room temperature could turn out to be just more in-soluble (higher molecular weight) PEG.

What is actually causing the staining? If you look at mineral oil, vegetable oil, and petroleum oil, depending on the degree of processing, they are clear. A PEG paintball w/ the old iodine dye of some older fills will still stain.

Any laundry detergent out there, as well as hand soaps and other cleaners, are designed to break up oil. Breaking up oil, and the surface tension of the water, is what allows the detergent to clean. A good rubn through the washing machine w/ any comercial detergent should get rid of the oils. What it can't get rid of is what stains. Look at blood stains. No oil there.

I'm ordinarily not this "pissy". I apologize to Roland, I mean no offense. My wife has a PhD in Molecular Immunology and Biochemestry, so I have a bit of a background. I have never liked when a "scientific experiment" puts itself out there as fact. Entirely too many variables are either not mentioned or not covered to put too much weight to this test. Is there oil in paintball, not arguing that. Is oil in paintballs bad for things (environment & gear), not arguing that.

I'm just saying...

Shives

Hear HEAR ... as I was perusing this thread I kept asking myself ... "but what does it mean/amount to?"

What ARE we saying about oil? Does it REALLY stain? IMO staining has more to do with the pigment/dye used in the ball, and seems more related to color than brand (e.g. PINK). Is oil really bad?

I've been shot at with all different kinds of paint and have yet to have one that doesn't come off hard surfaces with just water. The titanium dioxide, if that is what it is, does tend to stain soft goods white until you can get at it with soap and a brush, but it, too, comes off. Water solubility/washability has always been a major criterion for paintballs.

Environmental friendliness/tree friendliness is another issue and perhaps should be investigated separately. Maybe there are ways to counter the effects, extra irrigation or fertilizing perhaps?