General

[Mirage]

The officers shouldn't shoot someone out right because they are casually holding an airsoft gun (Or any other toy for that matter), although if it doesn't have the correct markings then they could get them for that. But if the guy with said "toy" is brandishing it at someone, especially the officer in question (Or really anyone that might take it the wrong way) and there is no indication that the "weapon" is fake, then we can see how it would be an immediate problem to his/her, and the safety. Now we arn't going to condone police shooting people but when it comes to things that you should know, even if you have never played with a toy gun before, we are far less sympathetic and understanding. He took a risk, it didn't work out well, he died, it was a terrible thing. Hopfully someone else will learn from it, if not, then we pitty the upcoming society.

Right now some mother tells her kid, "See the bad cop shot a poor kid with a toy." Instead that same mother should have said," See the cop shot little Johnny for being stupid ."

It will, probably, never be like that. The mother will forever hate the police for killing her son/daughter and preach to her other kids that it was the officers fault, for you know Johnny was just playing around..., in which they will grow up with the same mentality as their mother "police are bad they kill innocent children". At least that is our view on it all (Most likly we have it all wrong, hopfully)

The Darwin awards should become required reading in our schools, and maybe then people would learn from others being stupid before them. Yeah right, never underestimate stupid people. They have a talent for messing up that can never be prevented.

That they should. Plus the fact that they are, sometimes, good reading.

This brings up a memory (Which isn't so good), back in fourth grade we overheard a boy talking about how he would take down someone with a weapon using his martial arts skills, probably saw it in a movie or something, the next day we brought a metal replica of a colt .45 (*Slaps forhead*) to school and shoved it into the kids back, really all we wanted to see was how he would accomplish disarming us, we didn't dislike him whatsoever. He completly freaked and ended up drawing a massive amount of attention to us. When we look back at this the only thing that we can think about it how glad we are that this didn't happen nowadays.

We apologize for our bad spelling/grammar and ramboling, today isn't a good thinking day it seems.

[Dave Cameron]

Originally Posted by respiegel

I agree that anybody who removes markings meant for their own protection deserves whatever comes to them, but i also think that Law Enforcement shouldn't just plead ignorant and wipe their hands of the matter. Educate the officers out in the field that might see them, some Airsoft looks realistic some doesn't. there are other options rather than shoot somebody. if police don't have time to think before they kill somebody they don't need to have a badge in the first place.

I don't think we should be expecting officers to do a whole lot of thinking when a realistic-looking firearm is pointed at them or someone else. If they feel that they or someone else is in mortal danger, they are trained (rightly in my opinion) to react with deadly force. The reality is that these things require split-second decision making and second-guessing them after the fact without all the evidence is poor form in my opinion. Unless you've been in a similar situation with your life on the line, maybe you should think twice about what goes through an officer's head during (and after) this type of incident. This may sound terrible, but I'd rather have the occasional idiot pointing replica firearms at the police shot then have officers shot by actual firarms while they're trying to decide weather they are real or not.

I was always taught that it was in my best interest to be sure to keep the police at ease when pulled over, etc. by keeping my hands in view, moving slowly and letting them know before reaching into the glovebox, etc.. If I ever found myself in possession of any gun-looking object in the presence of law enforcement, I would immediately place it on the ground, step back and explain the situation. I'm not afraid of the police, but I have tremendous respect for what it must be like putting your life on the line 40+ hours a week.

[Morgenstern]

What was the situation where this kid got killed? It said it was a SWAT officer, it's possible he pulled a stunt in which he intented to commit 'suicide by cop' and purposely was acting like he has a real weapon in a threatening manner.

[shartley]

Yes, tragic indeed. But it is NOT the officer’s fault (as most here have stated).

As for training the officers better to identify toys from real weapons…… Police DO get trained for that type of thing. There is a training aid like a giant video game where the officer stands in front of a screen where they interact with a situation. The officer has a replica firearm and can react to the situation. The name of the training is called “Shoot, Don’t Shoot”.

The scenarios that the officer gets presented offer a lot of misleading situations. Officers get graded on acting correctly and even where they hit the suspects or even innocent victims. But I will point out that in many situations the correct thing to do IS to shoot even if the other person does not have a real gun. Why? Because the scenarios also play out so that the officer may him/herself get shot by the suspect.

As pointed out above, in many situations there is a fraction of a second to make their decision. And frankly in that short amount of time there is NO decision, it is training and instinct. Sometimes there simply is nothing more that can be done. Sometimes those with the toys need to be held fully responsible for their actions, even if they are a child. Or better yet, parents teach your children what is appropriate play and what is not. Children ARE smart enough to know not to point even a toy at a police officer. But if they are not, don’t let them play with that kind of toy.

[Azzy]

It's not an airsoft problem, its a parenting problem.

No matter how much these marxists like it or not, kids, expecially boys, like violent things. They like guns. Not bright green polodot space dildos, they like the real deal like the police and soldiers have. Been that way for decades.

The issues here are:

1- Kids not being taught how to make a correct decision when it comes to things like this (moral reletivism). We teach kids in school what to think, not how to think, and that is a huge problem as a whole.

2- Kids not being taught to respect weapons more. just as with paintball and firearms, there are correct uses and times for them. take away all those correct times, and the kids will find an incorrect time to use, play or display them.

Fix those 2 things, and I bet you anything we will see a drop in all this crap that happens in a school these days. People say we have progressed as a society after we changed the school system and got rid of uniforms, faith, patriotism, and common sense. Ive seen what they have progressed into ever night on the news.

[Kindred]

I remember a rash of similar articles years back when squirt guns were first sold that looked very realistic.

Even with the "highly visible" plastic muzzle tip, I still couldn't expect an officer to make that determination in the millisecond they have to decide.

This is just one more in the line of hundreds of similar stories, but I feel more for the cop than anyone else involved.

[Mirage]

Originally Posted by Morgenstern

What was the situation where this kid got killed? It said it was a SWAT officer, it's possible he pulled a stunt in which he intented to commit 'suicide by cop' and purposely was acting like he has a real weapon in a threatening manner.

We never thought of it that way. It wasn't just a regular school cop, it was a SWAT member. Unless your schools security guards are infact SWAT officers, there must have been something else going on there.

[Deadfall]

It sounds like this kid simply did not practice any common sense in this situation and, unfortunately, it got him killed.

Even if the Airsoft gun had the bright orange tip, a cop can't be expected to simply write it off as a toy, because there is nothing preventing someone from painting the muzzle of a real firearm orange.

[Pickle]

Originally Posted by respiegel

I agree that anybody who removes markings meant for their own protection deserves whatever comes to them, but i also think that Law Enforcement shouldn't just plead ignorant and wipe their hands of the matter. Educate the officers out in the field that might see them, some Airsoft looks realistic some doesn't. there are other options rather than shoot somebody. if police don't have time to think before they kill somebody they don't need to have a badge in the first place.

Boy you just don't get it. Officers know what airsoft guns are. They also know that when a gun is pointed at them to protect themselves and others. This includes you. When an officer goes into a situation where a gun is pointed at him (real or airsoft) he isn't required to think, "is this a real gun?" If the gun looks real then for all intents and purposes it is real. The officer is not required to take a round to the face before he is convinced the offender's gun is real.

Originally Posted by Deadfall

Even if the Airsoft gun had the bright orange tip, a cop can't be expected to simply write it off as a toy, because there is nothing preventing someone from painting the muzzle of a real firearm orange.

Yes yes yes. I might hesitate depending on the situation but if I saw a person with a orange tip on their gun I would be thinking that this is exactly what the person did. Why? Because I would rather think that than have my family standing over my coffin saying, "he thought it was a toy."

[Azzy]

I might add to this what I have added before in the milsim look argument. I have a few friends who are officers in the local area of West homestead. Not the nicest area, its economic downfall was when the steal mills all closed and the mill workers left. Now its mostly rundown bars and welfare projects, which get interesting.

A few years ago one of the local gangs started painting their real guns green adn orange, to try and trick cops. And by gangs I mean 16 year old types dealing drugs.

Ive been told they dont hesitate when they have a gun pointed at them, no matter the color. They do use common sense in every situation though, and I know I havent heard about many kid shootings over this way.