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Old 02-15-2013, 05:53 PM   #1 (permalink)
Tired old brass...
 
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Cookeville, TN

What seals / screws for my PUG?

I’ve been out of the sport for a while. Once every year or two, I’ll pick up a marker and head with some old friends to the “back 40” to celebrate someone’s birthday, bachelor party, or divorce or something. The rest of the time, my gear is in a locked cabinet.

The oldest of my children, my 9 year old son, came to me the other day acting a bit awkward. He seemed a bit embarrassed when he said that he had heard something at school and needed to ask me about it. What he whispered into my ear broke my heart. It’s a father’s job to teach his son about the facts of life, but I had failed him. “What is paintball?” he had asked. So I’ve decided that it’s time to clean up, air up, and man up - for my children if not for me.

I currently have five pieces of palmer brass that range from “leaking like a sieve” to “I don’t think that hole is supposed to be there.” I considered sending them all to California for rebuilds but between the shipping/rebuild cost and the engineering degree I quit paintball for in the first place, I decided that I would rather try to fix them myself first.

I pulled my PUG out of the case for testing, as I figured I would start with the simplest first, and work my way up from there. If I buy parts in multiples, I may even be able to save a bit off the cost of prepackaged seal kits plus have some spares in the end. My PUG is PP234 and is of the “PGP on steroids” variety (shoot-to-pierce 12g in the bottom tube). I put a new old-stock 12g from around 2003 in the lower tube and tightened the change knob (noting that the knob applied pressure to the 12g and did not simply bottom out on the fast changer sleeve). I then cocked and pulled the trigger. The 12g pierced fine, but CO2 was venting out of the lower tube like crazy. I disassembled the valve and saw that all of the seals had turned to a hard but surprisingly sticky tar. I was further disappointed when I saw that the same had happened to all the spares in my toolkit. I also noted that the screws in the marker and my toolkit were all rusted beyond the point of use. I remembered then that I have not replaced a single seal in it since I received it 2nd hand while my wife was in the hospital preparing to give birth to the aforementioned son. (Yes, I did take possession of it while she was in the hospital. No, I did not miss the birth.)

I’ve attempted to put together a list of all the seals and screws in my PUG, gathering information from either first hand measurements or the web. I would much appreciate it if you guys could look it over and point out any errors or help me fill out any missing information. I plan to replace the o-rings with either 90 durometer Viton or polyurethane (depending on if the seal is dynamic or static) and all the screws with stainless. Part of my confusion comes from the fact that my PUG had more seals in the lower tube than are included in the PPS kit.

Valve Guide Spool O-Ring 014 1
Valve Set Screw 1/4-28. 0.185 long 1
Bolt O-Rings Bottle O-Rings 3
Bolt Lug Screw? 10-32. 0.25 long exposed 1
Bolt Cushion O-Ring ? 1
RVA Set Screw 3/8-24. 0.25 long 1
Grip Panel Button Screw 6-32. 0.49 long 2
Grip Frame Button Screw 8-32. 0.385 long 2
Trigger Front Stop Set Screw 8-32. 0.25 long 1
Trigger to Sear Set Screw 4-40. 0.5 long 1
Trigger Shoe & Safety Set Screw 4-40. 0.175 long 3
Chamber Plug O-Ring ? 1
Chamber Plug Face Seal Black Face Seal? 1
Magazine Plug O-Ring ? 1
Magazine Plug SHCScrew O-Ring ? 1
Magazine Plug SHCScrew 3-56. 0.15 long 1
Sight pin 4-40 1

I can't help but notice that PPS no longer lists 12gs in the lower tube as the standard anymore. What happened? Does it have anything to do with the different colored Chamber Plug Face Seals (black, clear/white, orange/pink)?
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:46 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Do you have any pics? Is it a scratch built PUG or a palmerized PGP? Slightly different animals.

The cup seal is probably the biggest issue for leaks in a pump gun though if its coming from the lower tube I'd say you have a bad chamber plug face seal too. You are on the right track rebuilding the whole thing, and you should be able to do it yourself. I'd call PPS and see about ordering all the parts you want up front. I've tried a few rebuilds before buying them one piece at a time and paid a bunch of cash in shipping charges for an o-ring or two on each order.
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:31 PM   #3 (permalink)
Tired old brass...
 
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Definitely scratch built.

Name:  PUG PP234.jpg
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I do plan on replacing both the cupseal and the chamber face seal. I'll certainly order the cupseal and face seal from PPS, but have other sources for o-rings and screws, as I'll need quite a few for rebuilding all my markers that need work.

I'd like to place only one order with all the o-rings and screws I'll need at the same time, but I'll need to work out the missing size info first.

What is the difference between the different color face seals from PPS? I don't remember there being a difference once upon a time.
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Old 02-16-2013, 07:39 PM   #4 (permalink)
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That gun is beyond repair. Sell it to me at a rock bottom price instead...

I think they are just sourced from different locales. Some are harder than others though. CCI ones work great too. What other brass do you have that's leaking?
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:03 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Manning.... wipe that drool of anticipation off of your chin
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:09 PM   #6 (permalink)
Tired old brass...
 
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What other brass do you have that's leaking?
Well, since you asked. I've got an SB Stroker with a LPR reg leak. Plus, a convertible feed Squall with a Quicksilver that needs to be adjusted along with mangled QEVs and a ram that I think is cracked (a tree stepped in front of me). There's also a convertible houndstooth with a coupler leak and a Nasty Typhoon with a leaking switch and mangled QEVs (not from a tree). I don't have pics available of the others at the moment.
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:31 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Well, since you asked. I've got an SB Stroker with a LPR reg leak. Plus, a convertible feed Squall with a Quicksilver that needs to be adjusted along with mangled QEVs and a ram that I think is cracked (a tree stepped in front of me). There's also a convertible houndstooth with a coupler leak and a Nasty Typhoon with a leaking switch and mangled QEVs (not from a tree). I don't have pics available of the others at the moment.


Let me know if you want to send some stuff to a good home...
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:44 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Manning.... wipe that drool of anticipation off of your chin
You know how we roll around here! It's like sharks sniffing blood in the water. I really want to see this convertible squall.
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Old 02-17-2013, 09:53 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Thats allot of broken palmers....what when one went down you just got a new one?

I too would like to see them, the convertibles sound interesting.
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Old 02-18-2013, 02:36 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Thats allot of broken palmers....what when one went down you just got a new one?
Ha!

I had the Squall built in early 2000 or so. Then I had the Tooth built
later - maybe late 2001. I bought the SB Stroker from Yardog after we played the '02 IAO on team POG. (Turned out it had previously been owned by Movie Guy, also of that team.)
Team POG IAO '02 Page
I got the PUG in 2003 when a guy traded it to me for an ex-rental Sniper II I got in the crate when I bought all of Cousins Paintball's ex-rentals. The Nasty is my brother's but he pretty much abandoned it when he went to med school a few years back.

Generally, they've been really good to me. I once had a coupler leak on the Tooth, and a few chamber face seals in the Squall, but have had no other real issues that I can recall. To the best of my recollection, I've played so little in the last few years that whenever I had a problem, I would put the marker back in the case, thinking I would fix it later. I would never get around to fixing it, and would take a functioning marker the next time out.
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