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Old 12-25-2012, 12:33 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I really need to sit down and learn more details on the Nikon side of things. Ended up going Canon, and now I forget how the naming scheme works in Nikon.

And actually, to be honest I think we will see Full Frame disappear from the markets before the crops do. Without a revolution in chip production, they will always be vastly more economical to produce than larger sensors, which means they will be king of consumer grade gear (which sells in far larger volumes. Talking with a friend at an electronics store, they apparently moved 20 rebels for every 7D or 5D) as the vast majority of people are happy to upgrade to something more useful in various conditions than their cell phone, but have little pressing need to upgrade beyond that.

However, anyone who uses full frame and understands the advantages it has over crops is going to understand the advantages of medium format sensors, and I have yet to meet a photographer that is willing to cart around a large dual grip body that would say no to the little extra mass of a medium format digital if they were similarly priced.

I think that it is entirely possible that we will see the market eventually spilt to crop sensors (Possibly in mirrorless bodies), and economically priced medium format bodies. Not expecting that to happen within the next few decades, and it is entirely possible that a completely different imaging concept replaces cameras as we know them now before then, but still not that far fetched of an idea.
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Old 12-25-2012, 01:42 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Luckless, you make a lot of good points. I was talking about it with the wife yesterday while we drove to KY (captive audience FTW) and I believe you'll see more mirror-less cameras with crop sensors of similar ratios to what we see in Nikons and Canons now (1.5-1.6) and that may be the end of DX sized cameras. I would LOVE To see Nikon put out a medium format camera that had a converter for their lenses.
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Old 12-25-2012, 06:33 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I agree with a lot said here. Both Nikon and Canon have neglected crop senor cameras.
They have advertised that move from crop to full frame as the progression that should be taken. So with that ideology in place they have to keep the product line matching. Look at the 17-55 2.8 in both brands. They are amazing lenses! But in this case Nikon did it better. Canon's while arguably one of the sharpest zooms Canon has suffers from so so build quality and can be a dust pump. It can make you wanting more. But if you like the range than you have to get the 24-70 on a 5D. These companies aren't stupid and in the end the all mighty dollar is what drives them. Wanting people to upgrade to the newest tech or more expensive bodies and/or lenses is what they want.

I do feel that as mirrorless cameras get better both companies will probably start to integrate them into their lines using their current bodies. I don't see full frame going away anytime soon. Too many pros and serious enthusiasts want what it has to offer (myself included). Plus with Nikon and Canon having tens of millions of full frame lens out there already it it makes sense that they would evolve with the technology. I just don't see the DSLR style body going anywhere anytime soon. Not everyone likes a tiny bodied camera.

But again I feel eventually we will see mirrorless enter into the dslr bodies as technology gets better, and full frame will still be around. I actually like the APS-H sensors that Canon had in the 1D series (until the 1DX)
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Old 12-26-2012, 03:44 PM   #24 (permalink)
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These companies aren't stupid and in the end the all mighty dollar is what drives them.
As far as I can tell, this is not true. If they were really concerned about maximizing sales, they would do a better job of analyzing what it is that buyers actually WANT and then make THAT. The 35mm 1.8 DX lens is a runaway success for Nikon so they make...more zooms and multiple DX macro lenses, both of which are lacking some appeal at this point. The 17-55mm was nice, but a stabilized update is WAY overdue.

What I see these two companies doing is looking at one another and competing blindly against each other's product offerings in an attempt to beat the other at its own game. If Canon makes X, Nikon needs to make X. If Nikon comes up with Y, Canon has to make a Y. Where is the customer in this bilateral rat race?

Now if even one of these two would sit down and start managing DX they way the m4/3 consortium is actively managing the lens lineup for that format, I would be overjoyed. Why is it that DX, a format with over a decade of history, lacks lens choices that the companies are putting out for the system that's about 1.5 years old? A question that makes even less sense when you realize DX is Nikon's core profit center in the imaging division.

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Old 12-26-2012, 09:04 PM   #25 (permalink)
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As far as I can tell, this is not true. If they were really concerned about maximizing sales, they would do a better job of analyzing what it is that buyers actually WANT and then make THAT. The 35mm 1.8 DX lens is a runaway success for Nikon so they make...more zooms and multiple DX macro lenses, both of which are lacking some appeal at this point. The 17-55mm was nice, but a stabilized update is WAY overdue.

What I see these two companies doing is looking at one another and competing blindly against each other's product offerings in an attempt to beat the other at its own game. If Canon makes X, Nikon needs to make X. If Nikon comes up with Y, Canon has to make a Y. Where is the customer in this bilateral rat race?

Now if even one of these two would sit down and start managing DX they way the m4/3 consortium is actively managing the lens lineup for that format, I would be overjoyed. Why is it that DX, a format with over a decade of history, lacks lens choices that the companies are putting out for the system that's about 1.5 years old? A question that makes even less sense when you realize DX is Nikon's core profit center in the imaging division.
While agree with what you said I still stand by what I said. While both companies want to gain customers from each other, keep current customers and ultimately gain completely new customers they must produce products to to sway people's decisions, and keep current customers happy.

In all honesty I feel that Nikon listens to their customers a little more than Canon. Canon does listens but still seems to be headed towards a more video/photo systems. There is no problem with that except that it can leave people who do care about video wanting more. Especially when they update/upgrade lenses to what seem to be more video specific. Now this is just an opinion and observation.
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Old 12-26-2012, 09:57 PM   #26 (permalink)
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For sure...and I definitely understand where you are coming from. As a loyal Nikon user for years, I just can't understand why they do what they do...including:

1. Slash prices 1-2 months after loyal users snap up new models at full price
2. Ignore blatant and chronic quality control shortfalls with almost every new model (D800 AF system, D600 dust/oil, D7000 focus alignment*).
3. Refuse to sell basic, user serviceable parts (i.e. body caps) without sending the entire camera in and paying labor fees...when no labor is needed!
4. Neglect lenses for their most popular (bestselling) line of cameras
5. Walking away from software--even necessary stuff like NX2
6. Make repairs an unreasonably difficult thing to obtain--clearing burden of proof hurdles and incurring shipping costs that Canon pays for (and why not when it's their fault!)

* I don't have my D7000 because it is at a Nikon Customer Service Center for (hopefully) getting the AF back focus remedied. Not sure how long it will be gone!

In response to complaints, Nikon USA actually told D800 owners to just not use their left side AF sensors. That boils down to using single point only, since any of the auto AF modes are all-or-nothing and you cannot tell the camera to just "ignore the left side". Facepalm.

This is not a company that I see staying around for the long term if they keep doing what they're doing. After a certain point, you cannot keep selling to new buyers...the market will be saturated with cameras soon if it isn't already. Nikon should be thinking about and getting ready for that time...I'm not convinced that's happening.
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Old 12-27-2012, 03:13 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Very true!

I actually will own both a D7000 and a 50D after this week. I have heard some horrible things about Nikon USA customer service/repairs.

I'm not sure which company I'm going to stay with though I'm going to run both and see where it takes me.
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:27 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Ok i admit that i haven't read most of the posts maybe half of the first page, but your mirrorless cameras are the cool thing now and it uses an APS-C sensor. So i'm not all to worried that they would be disregarded anytime soon. Full frame has more the same competition to worry about. Neither FX or DX will fall anytime soon it is almost like a yin\yag type of thing.
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:34 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Prosumer DX going away??? CP+ 2013: Interview with Canon's Masaya Maeda: Digital Photography Review
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:35 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Interesting read. Thanks for sharing.
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