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Old 01-10-2013, 02:19 AM   #11 (permalink)
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[rant]

Id like to point out something, that seems to be ignored in all the discussions about the thing, over the vast expanses of the internet:

1) The price point, isnt official, it merely based to Xi3 price point, but the thing will be branded, and most likely sold by Valve - ie atm any price point given by anyone but Valve, is conjecture.

2) Im reading lots of people going wtf, stating they aint getting it, and the whole idea is ridiculous. Most appear to be PC gamers. Newsflash - it is not geared to the PC gaming crowd, the target audience is console gamers of all stripes. The idea behind is simple - kill the concept of platform exclusives. Bring everyone into the fold of Steam.

[/rant]

As a staunch PC Gamer (the only console i ever owned is a Wii) i think the idea is great, if tho' im not its intended market.
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Old 01-10-2013, 02:30 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Flint View Post
[rant]

Id like to point out something, that seems to be ignored in all the discussions about the thing, over the vast expanses of the internet:

1) The price point, isnt official, it merely based to Xi3 price point, but the thing will be branded, and most likely sold by Valve - ie atm any price point given by anyone but Valve, is conjecture.

2) Im reading lots of people going wtf, stating they aint getting it, and the whole idea is ridiculous. Most appear to be PC gamers. Newsflash - it is not geared to the PC gaming crowd, the target audience is console gamers of all stripes. The idea behind is simple - kill the concept of platform exclusives. Bring everyone into the fold of Steam.

[/rant]

As a staunch PC Gamer (the only console i ever owned is a Wii) i think the idea is great, if tho' im not its intended market.
but how will this kill console exclusives? god of war and halo will probably never be let go by sony and microsoft. any game that can are allowed to be porter probably already have been ported.
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Old 01-10-2013, 02:56 AM   #13 (permalink)
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but how will this kill console exclusives? god of war and halo will probably never be let go by sony and microsoft. any game that can are allowed to be porter probably already have been ported.
By killing the hardware obviously. And id like to point out the fact that microsoft in fact is the easy target, considering the fact that microsoft themselves admit that they are selling the xboxes at a severe loss.
Via Valve Piston, Microsoft can cut the losses on hardware and hardware support, while retaining the revenue from the Game publishing/platform licensing side of the business. Considering that Microsoft published/licensed games are already on Steam, they know that the Steam fees are a mere fraction of what they are loosing on the hardware.

Basically the whole thing bets on whether, at least Microsoft, see that Piston can increase their market reach, profits, and cut the losses while retaining tight control over content...
No more wailing by studios about the ****ty hardware constraints, the necessity of porting a game made on PC into the console OS, and other nice things.

I might be oversimplifying things, but simplicity is the selling point here.
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:23 AM   #14 (permalink)
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but piston is just another "console," if that system is profitable then microsoft would have licenced halo to ps3 already. also, microsoft is making money by having third parties release games on xbox. if they killed the xbox they are removing that entire chunk of their profit, let's not forget about the profit from xbox live subscriptions either. how can valve convince microsoft to kill the xbox with piston alone?
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:53 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by heinous View Post
and you can't sell the old steam games back to gamestop like you can on consoles.
Which both Sony and Microsoft are planning to kill with their next generation of consoles. Not really an argument for or against the Piston or anything else we've discussed, just an interesting FYI that's caught my attention recently.
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:55 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heinous View Post
but piston is just another "console," if that system is profitable then microsoft would have licenced halo to ps3 already. also, microsoft is making money by having third parties release games on xbox. if they killed the xbox they are removing that entire chunk of their profit, let's not forget about the profit from xbox live subscriptions either. how can valve convince microsoft to kill the xbox with piston alone?
Thats the beauty of it, that its not an another console, its a full fledged PC in a console package.

Unlike the PS3, it wont be taking a chunk out of the market share, it will be expanding the market share, for those who where smart enough to get on the band wagon.

Microsoft primary sources of profit in the Xbox scene is: accessories, Live, publishing, and licensing. Primary sources of loss: hardware, support, servers.
By moving to Piston, Microsoft can retain all of the profits sources, while shifting its losses costs to Valve.

Live is still viable even withing Steam envelope, because Steam is very underdeveloped in this aspect.
Accessories locked games. Available to every Steam user, but playable only with a Microsoft accessory. etc.
Complete annihilation of the used games market. Tighter (and cheaper) control over piracy than possible on Xbox.

I think that simplicity and costs cutting are the marketing points that Valve will be pitching to Microsoft.
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Old 01-10-2013, 02:37 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Flint View Post
Thats the beauty of it, that its not an another console, its a full fledged PC in a console package.

Unlike the PS3, it wont be taking a chunk out of the market share, it will be expanding the market share, for those who where smart enough to get on the band wagon.

Microsoft primary sources of profit in the Xbox scene is: accessories, Live, publishing, and licensing. Primary sources of loss: hardware, support, servers.
By moving to Piston, Microsoft can retain all of the profits sources, while shifting its losses costs to Valve.

Live is still viable even withing Steam envelope, because Steam is very underdeveloped in this aspect.
Accessories locked games. Available to every Steam user, but playable only with a Microsoft accessory. etc.
Complete annihilation of the used games market. Tighter (and cheaper) control over piracy than possible on Xbox.

I think that simplicity and costs cutting are the marketing points that Valve will be pitching to Microsoft.
Microsoft takes a loss on hardware (so does sony) because game studios pay them to release games for xbox/ps3. That is the console business model. Microsoft and sony are not going to ditch their consoles for steam.

I think the steam box as it sits today, is going to be for the person who wants a pc gaming rig and does not want to mess around with building one. You will be able to buy steam box model A and be guaranteed it is going to run games X, Y, Z.
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Old 01-10-2013, 02:52 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Microsoft takes a loss on hardware (so does sony) because game studios pay them to release games for xbox/ps3. That is the console business model. Microsoft and sony are not going to ditch their consoles for steam.
Not game studios, but game publishers, and Microsoft is a game publisher too.
And often the money is paid not for a platform release, but for a title license.

In Piston's case, publishers will still be paying Microsoft, whether it is for title license, accessory implementation (kinect or something else), or Live integration etc.


There is also one aspect of hardware, that i think is needs to be mentioned - Because Piston is a PC internally, not a custom PC derived platform, it is infinitely (well to a certain point) upgradable. The question tho' is whether, will there be service centers, and how those upgrades will be rolled out - part by part wont really work with the standard console crowd, so package upgrades will be more likely, and they will happen more often than console replacement cycles.

Last edited by Flint; 01-10-2013 at 03:02 PM.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:32 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Flint View Post
Thats the beauty of it, that its not an another console, its a full fledged PC in a console package.

Unlike the PS3, it wont be taking a chunk out of the market share, it will be expanding the market share, for those who where smart enough to get on the band wagon.

Microsoft primary sources of profit in the Xbox scene is: accessories, Live, publishing, and licensing. Primary sources of loss: hardware, support, servers.
By moving to Piston, Microsoft can retain all of the profits sources, while shifting its losses costs to Valve.

Live is still viable even withing Steam envelope, because Steam is very underdeveloped in this aspect.
Accessories locked games. Available to every Steam user, but playable only with a Microsoft accessory. etc.
Complete annihilation of the used games market. Tighter (and cheaper) control over piracy than possible on Xbox.

I think that simplicity and costs cutting are the marketing points that Valve will be pitching to Microsoft.
there is already a pc in console package, it's microsoft's own xbox. i am also not convinced this is enough to coerce microsoft to use piston because microsoft's current plan with xbox is still profitable despite selling hardware at a loss. they were losing yearly with the original but have since turned profit with the 360, or so they said in one of those video game magazines i used to read.

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In Piston's case, publishers will still be paying Microsoft, whether it is for title license, accessory implementation (kinect or something else), or Live integration etc.
wait, why? isn't piston going to run on steam? why would anyone need to pay microsoft?

Last edited by heinous; 01-10-2013 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:36 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heinous View Post
there is already a pc in console package, it's microsoft's own xbox.
Not really, the XBOX is a PC derived platform, rather than a console packaged pc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by heinous View Post
i am also not convinced this is enough to coerce microsoft to use piston because microsoft's current plan with xbox is still profitable despite selling hardware at a loss. they were losing yearly with the original but have since turned profit with the 360, or so they said in one of those video game magazines i used to read.
I cant say that im convinced either, but to me it looks like how Valve is pitching the system to Microsoft and others.

And no, Microsoft is still selling the 360 at loss. Have a look on Xbox360 wiki page, they have a pretty good tally of reported costs.
And it is pretty clear that the profits coming from: accessories (kinect, controllers, hds etc), titles (primarily Halo), and Live, in fact it looks like the license fees that other publishers pay Microsoft, dont bring that much of a profit.


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wait, why? isn't piston going to run on steam? why would anyone need to pay microsoft?
Licensing of many things, that are necessary today for publishing an AAA title.
Partial or full ownership of specific titles. Use of Live, accessories etc.

While microsoft in turn will be paying Valve, for access to Steam.
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