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Old 01-10-2013, 11:44 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Not really, the XBOX is a PC derived platform, rather than a console packaged pc.



I cant say that im convinced either, but to me it looks like how Valve is pitching the system to Microsoft and others.

And no, Microsoft is still selling the 360 at loss. Have a look on Xbox360 wiki page, they have a pretty good tally of reported costs.
i'm not talking about just the physical console. i'm saying the xbox market as a whole brings profit to microsoft.

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And it is pretty clear that the profits coming from: accessories (kinect, controllers, hds etc), titles (primarily Halo), and Live, in fact it looks like the license fees that other publishers pay Microsoft, dont bring that much of a profit.



Licensing of many things, that are necessary today for publishing an AAA title.
Partial or full ownership of specific titles. Use of Live, accessories etc.

While microsoft in turn will be paying Valve, for access to Steam.


if you're talking about licensing technology required to make a game, microsoft is going to get paid licensing for it regardless of platform, meaning that's the profit that microsoft would make with or without piston. the whole idea behind the xbox is to get a different piece of the pie which the piston is now trying to fight for.

but if microsoft abandons xbox like you said, xbox live wouldn't even exist. why are you saying people will still pay microsoft for it?

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Old 01-10-2013, 11:54 PM   #22 (permalink)
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i'm not talking about just the physical console. i'm saying the xbox market as a whole brings profit to microsoft.
And im saying that they can retain that market, expand it to additional audience, and cut the losses from the physical console.




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if you're talking about licensing technology required to make a game, microsoft is going to get paid licensing for it regardless of platform. the whole idea behind the xbox is to get another piece of the pie.
In this case it is not just the technology, its also creative properties, of which Microsoft either full owner or partner, and the various external accessories.

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but if microsoft abandons xbox like you said, xbox live wouldn't even exist. why are you saying people will still pay microsoft for it?
Actually it would. Microsoft have been expanding Live beyond xbox for years already. In fact all Microsoft branded games on Steam, already have Live, and you cant play them without it. Atm its free, but i wouldnt bet on how long it would last.
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Old 01-11-2013, 12:18 AM   #23 (permalink)
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And im saying that they can retain that market, expand it to additional audience, and cut the losses from the physical console.
In this case it is not just the technology, its also creative properties, of which Microsoft either full owner or partner, and the various external accessories.

Actually it would. Microsoft have been expanding Live beyond xbox for years already. In fact all Microsoft branded games on Steam, already have Live, and you cant play them without it. Atm its free, but i wouldnt bet on how long it would last.
i didn't know that, but that's not exactly a good thing to do though. currently they're making xbox users pay. under your new model they'll be making pc players pay regardless if they were pc players in the first place or if they switched from xbox to piston. the original pc players are not going to like it, and more likely than not they'll simply not play those games. so if xbox is abandoned and pc xbox live starts charging money, microsoft may retain their xbox live player base, but it's at the cost of driving away, or at least majorly pissing off, the entire original pc player market.
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Old 01-11-2013, 12:38 AM   #24 (permalink)
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here the other main issue with that little box. since its so small and compact. how are people going to be able to repair it. since parts will be specially made for it. also got the graphics card issue too. since being in small confined space how is going to keep the whole thing cool inside and let hot air out. yes its great idea. but you have to think about hardware issue do to heat and other things being specially made for it. so cost to get parts to fix at home or shop will be high since not many company's making parts. so comes down cost to make and cost to repair it. since keeping that thing cool enough will be issue.
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:41 AM   #25 (permalink)
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i didn't know that, but that's not exactly a good thing to do though. currently they're making xbox users pay. under your new model they'll be making pc players pay regardless if they were pc players in the first place or if they switched from xbox to piston. the original pc players are not going to like it, and more likely than not they'll simply not play those games. so if xbox is abandoned and pc xbox live starts charging money, microsoft may retain their xbox live player base, but it's at the cost of driving away, or at least majorly pissing off, the entire original pc player market.
Never said its a good thing, "Live" i mean. Assuming all this happens, the pricing system of Live might change altogether. For example, it could keep the free version as it is, while making the paid version more attractive, via extra content and all that sort of thing.

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here the other main issue with that little box. since its so small and compact. how are people going to be able to repair it. since parts will be specially made for it. also got the graphics card issue too. since being in small confined space how is going to keep the whole thing cool inside and let hot air out. yes its great idea. but you have to think about hardware issue do to heat and other things being specially made for it. so cost to get parts to fix at home or shop will be high since not many company's making parts. so comes down cost to make and cost to repair it. since keeping that thing cool enough will be issue.
People are not going to be able to repair it, that is pretty much clear, but the target audience is not the kind of people who would do repairs themselves. Most likely to repair, you will need to send/bring it to a service center.

Form factor and heat are much, much less of an issue than you think. Ive been brutalizing my tiny HTPC (passive cooling), for 2 or so years. 1080p movies, fairly high settings games, the load temps are about 100 Celsius for the GFX and 60 or so for the cpu (idle 75 and 40). Contrary to my expectations it still works without any issue.
My Rasberry Pi (credit card sized) runs 1080p movies, at room temps, and it doesnt have even passive cooling.

So i doubt that heat issues wont be taken care off.
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:50 AM   #26 (permalink)
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still, the box is supposed to be modular and upgradable. i wonder if the call of duty kiddies can mange even that, and let's face it that's a huge portion of the current xbox player base.

used to be, consoles had memory expansion add ons, but i don't ever remember them being a big hit.

i still feel taking on the console market is too big of a task for valve to safely do, at least with this piston thing alone, and especially since there's already an existing console market which means you have to convince them to buy one more thing.
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Old 01-11-2013, 02:06 AM   #27 (permalink)
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still, the box is supposed to be modular and upgradable. i wonder if the call of duty kiddies can mange even that, and let's face it that's a huge portion of the current xbox player base.

used to be, consoles had memory expansion add ons, but i don't ever remember them being a big hit.

i still feel taking on the console market is too big of a task for valve to safely do, at least with this piston thing alone, and especially since there's already an existing console market which means you have to convince them to buy one more thing.
I think the idea behind upgradability, is that you replace everything inside, with a newer version of the guts, with or without the harddrive, since Steam is moving to Cloud based storage.
Modularity is hooking up all the extra stuff you might want or need.

As for convincing buying extra stuff, well all the console gamers i know, who cover at the sight of a pc, and have a seizure when tech words are spoken, seem to have if not all consoles, then at least a 360 and a ps3. They dont seem to be averse to buying "one more thing".

Will my predictions and assumptions come true? who knows, might as well not.
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Old 01-11-2013, 02:12 AM   #28 (permalink)
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I think the idea behind upgradability, is that you replace everything inside, with a newer version of the guts, with or without the harddrive, since Steam is moving to Cloud based storage.
Modularity is hooking up all the extra stuff you might want or need.

As for convincing buying extra stuff, well all the console gamers i know, who cover at the sight of a pc, and have a seizure when tech words are spoken, seem to have if not all consoles, then at least a 360 and a ps3. They dont seem to be averse to buying "one more thing".

Will my predictions and assumptions come true? who knows, might as well not.
personally i have a ps3 and a wii, both of which i no longer use. i usually just see people break their 360 and then go buy another 360. some of them seem to have a sense of brand loyalty, or maybe they just want to play halo. i can see them buying piston when the current consoles show their age, maybe that's why valve was keeping this project under wraps for such a long time? even then valve still needs to compete with console exclusives of the 360 and ps3 somehow, as well as origin since new EA games are only sold there now. i know origin is a joke but steam (and therefor piston) has no access to battlefield 3, so that's already another game exclusive to consoles (because origin doesn't count because it's a joke)
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Old 01-11-2013, 02:14 AM   #29 (permalink)
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the other issue your going to have is hard drive space. since not sure how large it is or if you be able to add external one to it. have you seen the issue people are having with steam cloud system when they play borderlands 2 not saving info right. also with the fact that amazon cloud system caused nexflick to go down since to many people using it at one time. yes cloud base is good way to go. but with so many problems with people not being able to save games files at times or systems being overload. it will hurt them.
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Old 01-11-2013, 02:28 AM   #30 (permalink)
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the other issue your going to have is hard drive space. since not sure how large it is or if you be able to add external one to it. have you seen the issue people are having with steam cloud system when they play borderlands 2 not saving info right. also with the fact that amazon cloud system caused nexflick to go down since to many people using it at one time. yes cloud base is good way to go. but with so many problems with people not being able to save games files at times or systems being overload. it will hurt them.
My HTPC, which is slightly larger than the Piston (smaller than a wii) has a 1tb drive (2.5 SATA), today for the same money i can get a 3tb drive. And even if i download all of my Steam games library, all 200+ of them, ill be left with more than a half of the drive for everything else.

Yeah i heard people having issues with cloud, personally i had none, but yeah it can happen. But Microsoft itself is interested in moving to cloud based stuff, if it doesnt already do that.

Remember how many issues both 360 and ps3 had at launch, they seem to have survived fine.
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