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Old 01-11-2013, 01:55 AM   #31 (permalink)
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i heard some many issue with cloud base systems not have proper amount of space for people to use. also fact some are getting overwhelm. and other issue where they do not read each other. i had issue with cloud when i down load some music off itunes. for some reason it see stuff in cloud but when its wants to move to ipod or ipod touch say can not read it or other songs.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:05 AM   #32 (permalink)
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I had a fun time with a guest lecturer once who was giving a presentation on cloud storage/processing, and why it was 'the future'. A big part of his presentation was how a distant-remote thin-client (light weight terminal where all data is handled in massive centres, possibly in other cities) was so superior and would change how we do business. Mid way through his presentation he started taking questions and generating a discussion on the topic. A number of us (computer science students, not business were the majority attending) got into a debate with him over the issue of distant vs near-remote thin-clients (Central servers in a closet down the hall, not in some other part of the world), which kind of circled and stalled with the presenter claiming the distant-remote system was superior in every way.

We closed the debate when one of the other Comp.Sci students walked up to the computer he was using to give his presentation, said something to the effect of "So having all your data way across town or in another city, with no copies on you is a superior idea?", pulled out a multi-tool, cut his ethernet cable, and took his seat again without saying another word.

Our point made a very visible impact on the less technically minded students. (And we replaced the cable for computer services before we left.)


But really, modular 'consoles' are likely going to be a popular thing in the near future. More PC like, but with fewer options. Do you want the economy-casual class MkI graphics processor? Budget-core gamer class MkII? Or do you want to invest in the Extreme-Ultra Gamer class MkIII? Those are your choices, possibly contain your system RAM as well on a daughter-board configuration, and you get similar options for your Processor Board. Add the hard drive of your choice, and it all plugs into the primary power and IO board that makes up the base 'mother board' for the system.

Flexibility of a PC for upgrading, but with the controllability of hardware from consoles. All upgrades are known, and can be planned for by developers. (Kind of like developing iPhone/iPad apps are now. We have a range of configurations to consider, but generally few problems with older stuff running on newer hardware, barring OS change issues that are usually easy enough to clear with a software update)
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Old 01-11-2013, 07:39 PM   #33 (permalink)
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what exactly is "cloud storage" anyway?

i've been emailing documents to myself years before that term appeared. i don't see a difference.

of course, i'm not as dumb as that presenter, i kept copies on a usb key and the email copies were a fail safe, but still, how is that different from "cloud storage?" and if there is no difference, why was that term necessary? to sell things?
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:25 PM   #34 (permalink)
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"Cloud" is one of those things that has been kind of muddied over by business types trying to sell stuff based on buzz words.

The earliest papers I read referring to a concept of "Cloud" storage and processing centred on a core concept of a highly flexible computing system that was designed to be self balancing based on load, and shared by a very large user pool. One server might be running dozens of small things, all for different users, when one began to tax that server, it would get shifted seamlessly to another server with a lesser load. Data would be continually synced and updated across a network of the 'cloud', so that an outage or problem in any one part doesn't kill your access to data or processing.

The system would be highly flexible from both the user and admin views: Users don't notice anything, and stuff happens magically. Their website lags for a few minutes/seconds, and then magically runs perfectly smooth, even if they suddenly get a billion hits because it goes viral in China. (And they get billed accordingly at the end of the month) Admins can quickly expand their hardware network by contracting more servers from hosting companies and rapidly deploy their services onto the new machines. On the other hand they can quickly compact their services and remove excess hardware from their inventory, all without the end user noticing.

Where the Cloud is different from what came before is the level of redundancy and how it syncs itself. Before if you contracted out a server from a company you would be given access to an actual server, a box sitting in some room somewhere connected to a network. If something happened to that box, like some tech tripping over a cord, your service went down. If you needed more space or processing power, you had to contract a better box and move stuff over to it. Generally it was an all or nothing solution, you got the whole box, if you used 5% of it you were billed the same as if you used 95% of it.

Definitions of "The Cloud" have been vague in some cases, partly because the people trying to sell you "The Cloud" haven't the faintest idea what it actually means.
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:38 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Luckless View Post
"Cloud" is one of those things that has been kind of muddied over by business types trying to sell stuff based on buzz words.

The earliest papers I read referring to a concept of "Cloud" storage and processing centred on a core concept of a highly flexible computing system that was designed to be self balancing based on load, and shared by a very large user pool. One server might be running dozens of small things, all for different users, when one began to tax that server, it would get shifted seamlessly to another server with a lesser load. Data would be continually synced and updated across a network of the 'cloud', so that an outage or problem in any one part doesn't kill your access to data or processing.

The system would be highly flexible from both the user and admin views: Users don't notice anything, and stuff happens magically. Their website lags for a few minutes/seconds, and then magically runs perfectly smooth, even if they suddenly get a billion hits because it goes viral in China. (And they get billed accordingly at the end of the month) Admins can quickly expand their hardware network by contracting more servers from hosting companies and rapidly deploy their services onto the new machines. On the other hand they can quickly compact their services and remove excess hardware from their inventory, all without the end user noticing.

Where the Cloud is different from what came before is the level of redundancy and how it syncs itself. Before if you contracted out a server from a company you would be given access to an actual server, a box sitting in some room somewhere connected to a network. If something happened to that box, like some tech tripping over a cord, your service went down. If you needed more space or processing power, you had to contract a better box and move stuff over to it. Generally it was an all or nothing solution, you got the whole box, if you used 5% of it you were billed the same as if you used 95% of it.

Definitions of "The Cloud" have been vague in some cases, partly because the people trying to sell you "The Cloud" haven't the faintest idea what it actually means.
i have actually never heard that definition before, which goes to show how much that term is being used as a pure marketing jargon.
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:22 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Everyone keeps dreaming of making the console-like computer to sit quietly under your TV and just work, but today's issues I was having with one 6 year old game show a fatal flaw in that dream. Installed all 6GBs of Assassin's Creed off of Steam last night, and this morning, can't get it to work at all. Do I have enough computer? Hell yes, my current 'chine cranks hard enough I could probably ride it all 40 miles to work. So what's the issue? Either Ubisoft has shut off their DRM servers, or haven't bothered patching it to work with Windows 7, or something else, but whatever it is, after trying everything mentioned on the support forums and YouTube, it still won't run on my computer that has specs far and away above what was originally recommended by Ubisoft.

That's the big issue - you can make all the pretty, quiet hardware you want, but if the software companies aren't required to maintain the software they are still selling (Assassin's Creed still on sale for $20 on Steam), than the bloody thing won't run like the "set it and forget it" console you want to replace.

Not that I'm bitter...
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:11 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by usagi_tetsu View Post
Everyone keeps dreaming of making the console-like computer to sit quietly under your TV and just work, but today's issues I was having with one 6 year old game show a fatal flaw in that dream. Installed all 6GBs of Assassin's Creed off of Steam last night, and this morning, can't get it to work at all. Do I have enough computer? Hell yes, my current 'chine cranks hard enough I could probably ride it all 40 miles to work. So what's the issue? Either Ubisoft has shut off their DRM servers, or haven't bothered patching it to work with Windows 7, or something else, but whatever it is, after trying everything mentioned on the support forums and YouTube, it still won't run on my computer that has specs far and away above what was originally recommended by Ubisoft.

That's the big issue - you can make all the pretty, quiet hardware you want, but if the software companies aren't required to maintain the software they are still selling (Assassin's Creed still on sale for $20 on Steam), than the bloody thing won't run like the "set it and forget it" console you want to replace.

Not that I'm bitter...
i think valve has developed steam to a big enough extent and importance to force that kind of requirement. they already have this "steam play" thing where if you buy a game that falls in its category, you get both pc and mac copies. i seem to recall a big part of the steam console is to make sure a game only has to be able to run on STEAM, PERIOD. it makes sense, given how gaben is rumored to have a dislike for windows 8, as well as valve already working to get steam compatible with linux.

as it is currently:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/15100/
"Supported OS: Windows® XP/Windows Vista® (only)"

Last edited by heinous; 02-09-2013 at 06:15 PM.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:12 AM   #38 (permalink)
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i think valve has developed steam to a big enough extent and importance to force that kind of requirement. they already have this "steam play" thing where if you buy a game that falls in its category, you get both pc and mac copies. i seem to recall a big part of the steam console is to make sure a game only has to be able to run on STEAM, PERIOD. it makes sense, given how gaben is rumored to have a dislike for windows 8, as well as valve already working to get steam compatible with linux.
Are they saying that the Steam console thing is going to just be a portal back to the Steam servers and your games will play off site, and stream back to your house? Oh science! That didn't freaking work for OnLive because America's internet infrastructure sucks (unless you live in Kansas City and got your neighbors to go in with you for the Google fiber... I have a friend who lives in KC, and his ghetto neighborhood didn't go for it, I feel sorry for him). I hope they don't do that, it does not bode well for them.

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as it is currently:
Assassin's Creed™: Director's Cut Edition on Steam
"Supported OS: Windows® XP/Windows Vista® (only)"
You notice how small that warning is and where it is on the page? They sure aren't interested in catching anyone's attention with it, unlike their warning that you had to have at least a dual-core processor. And that's part of what kills me - it works in Vista, but not 7, not even with compatibility turned on. How badly written is your code that it's that OS specific?
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Old 02-10-2013, 06:09 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by usagi_tetsu View Post
Are they saying that the Steam console thing is going to just be a portal back to the Steam servers and your games will play off site, and stream back to your house? Oh science! That didn't freaking work for OnLive because America's internet infrastructure sucks (unless you live in Kansas City and got your neighbors to go in with you for the Google fiber... I have a friend who lives in KC, and his ghetto neighborhood didn't go for it, I feel sorry for him). I hope they don't do that, it does not bode well for them.
yeah, you're right, i also doubt that's the case, since this steam piston's hardware is meant to be upgradable, which wouldn't be necessary if the processing is done outside your house. more likely i think gaben wants steam to become like a lightweight OS for the piston. he DID work for microsoft, after all.

as for the requirement description, i think it would be too draconian if valve was to enforce big letters. it may not be possible for them to enforce it without looking like the big bad guy. it's definitely sneaky on ubisoft's part to keep it so discreet when they could have added it to part of their game description, but it's also kind of your fault you didn't check too.
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:39 AM   #40 (permalink)
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'Tis true, I should have checked it better. But tell me true - a game you purchased on Steam that came out less than 7 years ago and works on XP and Vista, but not on 7, that'd piss you off just a wee bit? Doesn't that sound just a little bit of bull**** to you? I understand that a game that came out 10 years ago and was only coded for XP wouldn't have been upgraded to work on 7, but something that recent that worked on Vista? Come on, how big of a jump from Vista to 7 is it really?

I think the other big issue is that the AC series is a console port AAA game - my brother-in-law has a policy of not buying those, and the deeper I get into AC2 (I'm pulling out the gamepad tonight because it's obvious it was made for that rather than the finesse of a keyboard and mouse) the more I realize how good a policy that really is.


EDIT: found the fix - Dual-Booting a Win7 Machine with XP
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Last edited by usagi_tetsu; 02-11-2013 at 11:59 AM.
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