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Old 11-29-2012, 10:34 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Jaccen View Post
How do you define free flowing? From past experiences, would you be able to compare it to other well known valves? ie. Rat, CCM, Checkit, etc.
The Palmers LT valve did not produce as high or higher velocity as the stock 2000+ valve from my back to back testing running the using the same springs/reg pressure/barrel on a midblock marker. I even tried running it at different pressures to see if things improved (175, 200, 225, 250). i also tried re-installing it a couple times to eliminate that as a possibility.

The Check-It valve is pretty close to the stock valve running at the same settings (again, trying multiple pressures), i only saw about a 10 FPS increase in my testing. it looks like the stock valve, just the stem gets thin like the Palmers LT stem.

i do not believe the CCM can run at the lower pressures i like to run my markers at (200-250), so it is out. i have not run the RAT valve yet, not sure i want to run it since it looks like it has a short stem and different sealing face.
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:49 PM   #52 (permalink)
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In terms of fun with high flow LP performance, I'll never give up my tornado valve. Hardly the best 75$ I've ever spent, but worth the investment for the AKA junkie I wish I was

I haven't ever installed one in my guns, but I have played with other cockers running the RAT valve. It ran well at 250psi IIRC
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Old 11-30-2012, 08:22 AM   #53 (permalink)
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That's great info gospeed!
I never tested the valves for LP only for sound signatures. Figured I could slap a green maddman valve spring to up the dwell but I didn't have issues with brittle paint so never went with that option.
I do have a Tornado on my mech and that truly is an LP valve. I can shoot deep into the tank without drop offs.
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Old 11-30-2012, 08:32 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gospeedgo1 View Post
The Palmers LT valve did not produce as high or higher velocity as the stock 2000+ valve from my back to back testing running the using the same springs/reg pressure/barrel on a midblock marker. I even tried running it at different pressures to see if things improved (175, 200, 225, 250). i also tried re-installing it a couple times to eliminate that as a possibility.

The Check-It valve is pretty close to the stock valve running at the same settings (again, trying multiple pressures), i only saw about a 10 FPS increase in my testing. it looks like the stock valve, just the stem gets thin like the Palmers LT stem.

i do not believe the CCM can run at the lower pressures i like to run my markers at (200-250), so it is out. i have not run the RAT valve yet, not sure i want to run it since it looks like it has a short stem and different sealing face.
Thank you very much for the info. It's appreciated. On a side note, what spring combos are you using? I ask because I'm looking to build an easy pumping, quiet pump. Efficiency is also a concern, but not as great of one.
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:43 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Don't mean to butt in, well I really do, but there day's I'm finding that in terms of a smooth, easy pump stroke it has more to do with build than springing, or at least as much to do with build quality as springing. Point in case I've got my beloved 96-97 old sniper body that I recently upgraded with a CCM kit, a/t and thin 45 frame. Uses the same mainspring as my 6.25, but isn't anywhere nearly as easy to pump. It's like with nelsons and carter machine - I LOVE my ghost and old spirit, but they're NO-WHERE near a joy to pump as a good duck, box gun or mini-comp.

Iono, springs are still important. Again, balancing them is more important for any desired setup than simply light springs, but I digress. in surein's case, with that lp high flow tornado valve, assuming you're using a heavy hammer (I forget do you have a freeflow tungsten) and good bolt, you should be able to use the weakest maddman spring, if not clip a couple coils.

Why do I feel so dogmatic today?!
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:13 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Dogmatic! HAHA! You know your ish so preach on brothah!
here are my setups..

Pump 1: Halved outkast with LT valve and spring, Freeflow heavy hammer, blue hammer spring, 14" bored UL or Boomstick. Super quiet but no idea on efficiency


Pump 2: RF 96 Evo with rex kit. Not as quiet using the same barrel


Mech: EvoX with rex hammer kit but Tornado valve. I can shoot deep into the tank without drop offs. Love the Tornado valve but still not as quiet as the LT
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:26 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Regarding your LT valve testing: turn up the pressure. Sweetspot for mine have always been between 250-300 PSI, it's not a super low pressure valve, but it is extremely quiet and efficient once tuned correctly. Honestly I like them better than any of the other valves on the market for a pump sniper.
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:48 PM   #58 (permalink)
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LOVE that halved outcast surein!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ApoC_101 View Post
Regarding your LT valve testing: turn up the pressure. Sweetspot for mine have always been between 250-300 PSI, it's not a super low pressure valve, but it is extremely quiet and efficient once tuned correctly. Honestly I like them better than any of the other valves on the market for a pump sniper.
This was also more or less the experience I had. That said, evening running off 12gs, I still had better luck all around with my HP LT valve. Consistency was about the same, maybe a little less after the 10th or 15th shot into the 12g. But the efficiency was way better than with a reg and mid/lp valve (getting 35-40 shots/12g @ 700-850psi, whereas with the other valves getting 25-30 shots @ 300-350 - I'd never run the standard PPS LT valve less than 300psi, simply because I always seem to get poorer performance doing that). And on top of that, for some reason the LT HP valve gives me a quieter sound signature than with the LP/mid valves. Of course balancing is the most important thing to do in any case, especially when using 12g. I was kinda surprised though that the higher pressure valve gave me a softer sounding shot...
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Old 12-01-2012, 04:59 PM   #59 (permalink)
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high pressure co2 with the proper valve (like the HP LT valve) is one of the quietest ways to run a marker. I use my LP LT valves in HPA guns and they do very well with them, but I can almost guarantee my Retro is still quieter with full length ported barrel

edit: I just did a quick test indoors with 3 markers that were chronoed last night to the same speed, plus the Scopey gun chronoed to suit, using dB app on my phone;

(baseline noise pressure in the room was 39.8 dB)

77 dB - Scopey Sniper with palmers LT valve running 300 PSI, with 10" Palmers barrel and rain cover
74 dB - Illusion with palmers LT valve running 300 PSI, with 12" Zero barrel
70 dB - VSC Phantom with freak bored 11" CCI barrel
66 dB - Retro 7 with 12" Zero barrel

values are average of 3 shots, this test was indoors so echos etc are a factor (the shots were fired at a stack of pillows to absorb the impact sounds). Distance and orientation of the shots were maintained throughout.

Not surprisingly, the two unregged 12 gram powered guns came out the quietest, the audibly perceived volume of each shot profile is also consistent with the readings (none of them sounded louder or quieter than they really were).

Last edited by ApoC_101; 12-01-2012 at 05:27 PM.
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:14 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ApoC_101 View Post
Not surprisingly, the two unregged 12 gram powered guns came out the quietest, the audibly perceived volume of each shot profile is also consistent with the readings (none of them sounded louder or quieter than they really were).
I'm 100% with you that this would be expected, but I'm curious. Would you explain how that works - How an unreg'd 12g run marker ends up being quieter than the same thing reg'd off CO2 (and HPA)?

Does it have something to do with the liquid-boiling/vaporizing into gas happening closer to the valve's exhaust without actually letting any liquid CO2 into the valve's output? (If you can figure out what I'm trying to say here bases on those words you win the prize.)

Wanna her something sad?

I've started dreaming about a dust-silver (so it's almost white looking) R7... With the brass a/c threaded barrel presently hiding in the closet...
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