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Old 10-19-2012, 02:51 PM   #11 (permalink)
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True, there is a lot that separates a blazer from a pyre. I was just speaking in terms of the gun's overall conception and design. It was designed as a semiauto/blazer originally. It was redesigned in a way for use as a pyre. All I was trying to say is that, at it's genesis, it conceived as primarily a semi-auto, not primarily a pump.

By LAPCO I mean Grey Ghost. No spring feed. Actually, because the Ghost is a breach drop gun, you can't really use a spring feed (bore drop nelsons you can use a spring feed; in the breach drop version there is a lip that the ball can easily get stuck on by the force of the spring pushing other balls behind it, and it will lead to chopping/feeding problems).

I'd really recommend not buying something you've never held or shot. Try and see if any store near you has any of these, and ask them about them, dry fire the display model, whatever you can do to get at least some feel. I highly recommend Carter's guns, but, even more so in this case because you're looking at the used market more so, with all the different buzzard versions, some dating back to the 80's, you should really see and feel how it shoots in person before you guy it.
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Old 10-19-2012, 03:09 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Grendal - impressive chrono readings and review. I read the Pyre has a single pump arm and has a tendency to twist. Did you find this to be true?

Toymachine - thanks for bringing a second option into light. There's a bit of pumpers in the Toronto vicinity. Hopefully someone will have a Carter/Ghost

Bacci - I have to take a look at your inventory
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Old 10-19-2012, 04:12 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toymachine View Post
By LAPCO I mean Grey Ghost. No spring feed. Actually, because the Ghost is a breach drop gun, you can't really use a spring feed (bore drop nelsons you can use a spring feed; in the breach drop version there is a lip that the ball can easily get stuck on by the force of the spring pushing other balls behind it, and it will lead to chopping/feeding problems).
Won't the Ghost's detent stop it from moving to the lip of the barrel?
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Old 10-19-2012, 04:38 PM   #14 (permalink)
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With an S rod attachment the Pyre has as much twist as a CCMed sniper. Which is virtually none.

I love my CCM markers, but I shoot my Pyre more than my CCMs
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Old 10-19-2012, 04:41 PM   #15 (permalink)
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The detent in the ghost won't do anything to prevent the issue with breach drops and spring feeds, as the detent only prevents the ball from rolling out once it is already in the bore.

What in this diagram is called a "step" I called a "lip." And you'll notice here that, speaking for myself, I prefer breach drops because they allow for a smaller overall package. Bore drops are nice (love my trracers and would so like to buy a Wintec I see around here - hint hint great deal: and you could add a functional spring feed with it being bore drop! Old Wintec nelson for sale!), but they are a little longer.




If one is very gentle I imagine the chopping issue of using a spring feed on a breach drop could be avoided. You could in theory move the pump/bolt slowly forward and have the ball glide gently over the lip of the breach with a light spring in the feed. Even then, I still think jamming would be an issue. Plus it would negate the point of a spring feed - a no fuss loading system compared to a stock class setup where you have to tilt the gun and make sure you chambered a ball.

@ Grendel: Yes, all I was really talking about was that they use the same extrusion. Comparing the sniper-a/c analogy to the blazer-pyre analogy doesn't work perfectly not I think more about it. It's been a long time since I played with a pyre. Tomorrow I'll make up for it. Has PPS done anything to improve the Pyre since they started selling them? Cause it's been year and years since I've played a game with one.

And once more I want to stress: If you have never played with a nelson don't just go out and buy one! Unless (a) you have money to burn and/or (b) you get a really great price on one. Some like me love them, their small package, history and their simplicity. Others loath them. Few would seem to be indifferent. Nothing wrong with any of this, it's just a paintball gun. But my point is, you won't know until you try. I'm confident that with a little effort you'll find someone with a buzzard if not also a new ghost in the Toronto area. I mean it is a big metropolitan area and from what I've heard a lively pump scene.

Then again, it's always nice to have a variety of guns in the kit

p.s. you're only allowed to buy that wintec if you're willing to sell it over to me for same price + shipping a couple months down the road

Last edited by toymachine; 10-19-2012 at 05:01 PM.
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Old 10-19-2012, 06:04 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surein View Post
Grendal - impressive chrono readings and review. I read the Pyre has a single pump arm and has a tendency to twist. Did you find this to be true?

Toymachine - thanks for bringing a second option into light. There's a bit of pumpers in the Toronto vicinity. Hopefully someone will have a Carter/Ghost

Bacci - I have to take a look at your inventory
Yes, the pump of the Pyre is single armed and you can rock it back and forth a little bit not as much a Sniper, but while playing with it I've never noticed it or had it bother me. Which actually is strange because that is why I was an early adopter the the CCM Deluxe pump kit for my snipers with it first came out because I did not like the twisting of the pump. So yes it does twist [a little] but it does not bother me at all.

I can not say enough good things about my Pyre but Toymachine gives good advice, try before you buy [if possible]. If you were around Columbia, SC I'm taking mine out for a spin on Sunday and would definitely let you play part of the day with it. There are a lot of good pumps out there old or new to choose from.

If you like a Sniper the Pyre is very similar in feel and will feel quite comfortable to you. If you are a Nelson based person it will feel weird to begin with same with a sniper. Neither is better inherently IMO it all comes down to quality and personal preference.

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Toymachine, I don't know of any major "improvements" in the Pyre since I bought mine in 2008. I honestly have had no problems with it. The only thing I've done to my Pyre is replace the standard 10" non-ported barrel with a 12" dual vented barrel. The non-port 10" barrel my Pyre came with had to be replaced as my teammates kept bitching about the noise when we were inside rooms >.< . One of the major things I like it it is it has it's HP regulator built into the extrusion and as typical with Palmers the Regulator is top knotch so no need to put a regulator on it for stability. If it works I don't ***K with it.
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Last edited by Grendel; 10-19-2012 at 06:14 PM.
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Old 10-19-2012, 06:50 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I'm going to keep my eye out for either a Pyre or a Ghost. Pyre gets a priority cause I'm familiar with Sterlings. There's a great amount of pumpers in Toronto and I have posted the question. Hope I get lucky one of these nights and get try one out. But if a good deal pops up, I just might grab it.

I know nothing about the Wintec and I'm not sure if I will get the gratification as an enthusiast. My buds is trying to restore a nelspot and it's a great nostalgic pumper - but certainly not competitive in the field.

thanks for showing me both sides of the coin. I appreciate the feedback
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Old 10-19-2012, 10:36 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Yea, if you like sterlings I'd go for the pyre over a nelson. The pump on most mid range nelsons (phantoms, ghosts, etc) can be a little stiff, with the biggest difference in the autotrigger (although this doesn't apply if you don't get a pyre with an autotrigger system; on sterling they all come stock with a/t as you know, but you need to make sure your pyre comes with one as it's not build into the basic design). Trying to a/t any non-carter nelson based gun through accuracy way way off thanks to the stiffer pump stroke, especially compared to a/t'ing a sterling or ccm. To be frank, unless I'm bunkering someone or more so getting bunkered I have never used my ghost's a/t in a game (although it is very nice, as you can pull back the trigger, engage the safety and the safety holds the trigger back, meaning you just have to pump to shoot). On some carters I've shot that have a lot of meat on them and lighter springs I can a/t almost as well as with a sniper design, but it's still not quite there.

In short, if you're an a/t fiend, go with the pyre or sniper/sheridan based gun. Just make sure it comes with one installed!

I still think in terms of a/t it goes, from best to worst, CCM-Sterling-Pyre w/ autotrigger-Nelson. In all honesty, I feel like the a/t on my sterlings are as good if not even a little better than the autotrigger on CCM or any sniper, as there isn't any tuning really requires by the user. The pyre has a stroke that is a little (and I mean very small) more harsh than a sniper based gun, but they're basically the same as Grendel stated. Now that all said, I have a spirit that is older than I am XD That's just one of the reasons I <3 nelsons.

Let us know what you do here. Good luck and have fun!!!

Last edited by toymachine; 10-19-2012 at 10:40 PM.
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Old 10-19-2012, 11:01 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Toymachine, at first I thought the Pyre would be awkward and there would be no point in switching from my Houndstooth but I just found the pump stroke nicer and the same ergonomics as the blazer really pushed my into using it more often. Plus I play rough and I don't have to worry about the end of my barrel since I can change barrels.

I think Craig added another stabilizing rods to the pump in later models? I'm not totally sure.
And as Grendel wrote above, another nice feature on the Pyre is the the stab incorporated into what would be the blazer lpr chamber. Because of this you can run a 4 oz tank straight into it with an easy regulator.
But as with any example (as an Grendel and Toymachine wrote), try before you buy if you can.
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Old 10-20-2012, 12:08 AM   #20 (permalink)
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My complaint was that I remember a bit more slop than I liked (for comparison, a bit less slop than those basic sniper kits, so not horrible but far from ideal). As I mentioned, I'm looking forward to playing with another pyre this weekend
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