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Old 02-11-2013, 12:28 PM   #41 (permalink)
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It isn't necessarily bad. You can get good efficiency across a wide pressure range as long as the valve, springs and marker match up to the set pressure. 500 psi can have some temperature advantage since the gas doesn't drop as far across the regulator like a 300 psi set up will.



From over bore to "match" bore, I often see a 30 fps increase. I start out testing a marker with an old over bored barrel to see if my set up will be able to play with very undersized paint. It has been noted that match boring sees the most inconsistency in the paint, but I don't get to set up for tight boring very often.

Chrony and count your shots with an overbored setup. Then drop your velocity 30 fps and count again. That will give you an idea about what your bore (only) will do for you. On a 500 psi poppet, I would think you could use a 12 or 10 inch barrel. As pressure gets lower and shot gas volume goes up, you can get more velocity (and efficiency) out of a longer barrel. Long tight barrels on high pressure start to trade off at some point, but extra barrel length is not as bad as "not enough".

My concern with the set-up im running is that pre2k valve chambers are designed for high pressure and low volume. I feel like by using a regulator im trying to "swim upstream" if you will and making the marker do something it wasnt designed to do.

I have a spring kit coming in this week and im hoping to experiment. Any advice on where i should start. Im getting a madman spring kit. Im trying to decide on either a hard valve spring or a medium one.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:57 PM   #42 (permalink)
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My concern with the set-up im running is that pre2k valve chambers are designed for high pressure and low volume. I feel like by using a regulator im trying to "swim upstream" if you will and making the marker do something it wasnt designed to do.

I have a spring kit coming in this week and im hoping to experiment. Any advice on where i should start. Im getting a madman spring kit. Im trying to decide on either a hard valve spring or a medium one.
The worst thing I think I have run into is when the volume of gas you have in the body is too small for the pressure you are running. This makes the regulator open hard and early (at best), and most regs don't do that consistently. As your reg pops open while the poppet is open, the closing of the poppet varies with the reg response.

As noted around here somewhere, listen to the dry fire of the springs and check for hammer bounce on the valve face. That says the hammer may bounce once the valve starts trying to push it off. Less turn-in on the IVG helps reduce the effect of the hammer spring on the bounce.

I usually try to get them up and running consistently first, see where they are at, then by fiddling with the adjustments and barrel over a chrony, you get an idea of what you can do with it. If the marker can shoot well over 300 fps, you probably have some changes you can make toward efficiency.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:04 PM   #43 (permalink)
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The worst thing I think I have run into is when the volume of gas you have in the body is too small for the pressure you are running. This makes the regulator open hard and early (at best), and most regs don't do that consistently. As your reg pops open while the poppet is open, the closing of the poppet varies with the reg response.

As noted around here somewhere, listen to the dry fire of the springs and check for hammer bounce on the valve face. That says the hammer may bounce once the valve starts trying to push it off. Less turn-in on the IVG helps reduce the effect of the hammer spring on the bounce.

I usually try to get them up and running consistently first, see where they are at, then by fiddling with the adjustments and barrel over a chrony, you get an idea of what you can do with it. If the marker can shoot well over 300 fps, you probably have some changes you can make toward efficiency.
By hammer bounce im assuming you mean "farting" Im not getting any farting when i shoot. Right now im hitting about 25 shots off a powerlet with my terrible paint to bore matching. With my terrible matching im hitting 310ish with reballs which translates to 295 with regular paint.

I have a feeling im not far off. I just need to fine tune it. My goal is to hit 35 shots and ill be happy
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:22 PM   #44 (permalink)
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By hammer bounce im assuming you mean "farting" Im not getting any farting when i shoot. Right now im hitting about 25 shots off a powerlet with my terrible paint to bore matching. With my terrible matching im hitting 310ish with reballs which translates to 295 with regular paint.

I have a feeling im not far off. I just need to fine tune it. My goal is to hit 35 shots and ill be happy
Sounds like it's time to pick your barrel(s) for that marker.
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:32 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Russc was getting about 50 shots on a cocker with a reg on a 12 gram. There's a HUGE thread about it somewheres.
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:37 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Russc was getting about 50 shots on a cocker with a reg on a 12 gram. There's a HUGE thread about it somewheres.
yea ive read the thread the problem is he is using a post 2k set-up and he doesnt go much into how to properly spring for efficiency
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:38 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Sounds like it's time to pick your barrel(s) for that market.
i finallly caved and i have a full freak kit on the way. Its not easy to let go of my American made Glue'd UL. Im sure you understand. If this was 10 yrs ago id be fine lol
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:08 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Russc was getting about 50 shots on a cocker with a reg on a 12 gram. There's a HUGE thread about it somewheres.
I find my regged 12 gram cocker slightly sensitive to rate of fire. If I chug away (no autotrigger) I still get 30+ shots per 12g (~275fps). At slower rates, it runs around 35 to 40. I'm happy with consistent velocity and a little overlap with my 30 round pods. Mine is not accurately sprung. I re-used the trilogy hammer spring and a chunk of random spring for the valve. I think I could go with a longer, lighter valve spring and back out my IVG some more. I just don't have a kit to buy for that one.

Either way, I don't play enough 12g to keep track of tubes and cartridges at the same time.

35 shots at 300 fps will be getting "up there".
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:56 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Update: Alright i did a ghetto bore job on my barrel (using tape) to get a tighter seal around the ball and i redid a 12 gram test.

Set-up: pre2k sniper stock valve, stock spring set, stock WGP reg set at 500psi. lapco t-stock with a 12 gram adapter screwed into the ASA.

My first test i ended up getting 24 usable shots. The only change was the rebore of the barrel which allow me to turn my IVG out about a turn and a half.

This test gave me 30 useful shots off of a powerlet.

I was getting alittle bit of hammer bounce so im going to try a stiffer valve spring when my madman kit comes in
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Old 02-12-2013, 05:27 PM   #50 (permalink)
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I was getting alittle bit of hammer bounce so im going to try a stiffer valve spring when my madman kit comes in
You might need to go to a lighter spring, so that you can get less hammer preload on the valve, if you have the room on the IVG.

I think in the usual setup the valve spring is lighter than the hammer spring (from the madman kit), but it needs to match your valve and pressure range. "Just sayin", don't be surprised if balances out the other way.
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