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Old 03-13-2009, 05:13 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Snipers on 12 grams / on CO2 Discussion

First of all, I have a set of shots I'd like to share.


These were made with a stock 2k4 WGP gun, black magic reg, .684 Un1tec barrel, line SI lever changer in bottomline config, stock aluminum open face bolt. All shots were made without holding the pump, rubber band used as return spring. Shot interval was about 5-10 seconds as I only had two paintballs, so every shot I walked over and picked the ball back up after shooting it into a hanging bathrobe.

1. *forgot to chrono(
227 (adjusted)
296
300
304
289
291
296
297
10. 309
295
295
295
293
291
293
294
296
290
20. 294
302
291
292
294
296
299
298
295
296
30. 294
298
298
303
296
300
302
303
302
*lost ball*
291
40. 289
324
340 (WTF! Gun loses sweetspot, starts to shoot hot)
43. 291
233 - vented after shot

As you can see, not only does it get insane efficiency to rival the best Nelson setups out there, but the FPS curve is essentially flat until you get to the last 3-4 shots. I don't believe this gun was properly sweet spotted as you can see when the regged pressure dipped at the end the gun went all the way up to 340 fps. 43 shots in total, all of them in the top range of allowable velocities.

Keep in mind, this is an unmodified mid-pressure stock WGP gun with a 12gram changer in the bottomline duckbill.

So, there's a few things that are worth discussing here.

1. Regged low-med pressure 12 gram guns can get a flatter pressure curve, while getting just about as many shots.

2. "dead space" is less significant, if not inconsequential in a regged setup versus an unregged setup where all expansion is avoided.

3. The sweet spot on Snipers have potential for abuse. This is why I tell people who want to run unregged CO2 or HPA into their Snipers to get a pre-2k valve. Say you start at 280 fps, with the unregged pressure slamming your valve shut. Once your pressure starts dropping you will begin to have insanely high velocity as the gun is reaching its sweet spot the lower you go.

4. Why don't more stock class setups incorporate regulators, as a flat pressure curve is more desirable than a dipping pressure curve, given that you aren't losing many shots, if any.


[edit] Video of a similar test, gets to 28 before camera cuts out. YouTube - Sniper II 12 gram testing - unmodified WGP gun
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Old 03-13-2009, 05:21 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Old 03-13-2009, 05:24 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Yeah, whoa. I did this test to prove that regged snipers could get 30 shots, and the results sort of blew me away. Most of us assume that the bottomline plus macroline plus regulator plus 2k+ spec body would kill efficiency, but that only seems to be the case for unregged setups.

The craziest part was the pressure curve. By the 40th shot I was just ****ting myself.
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Old 03-13-2009, 05:42 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
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4. Why don't more stock class setups incorporate regulators, as a flat pressure curve is more desirable than a dipping pressure curve, given that you aren't losing many shots, if any.
Case and point.

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Old 03-13-2009, 05:46 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I know some people play at ~260 to save 12 gram shots...I wonder how shooting 30 fps lower would affect this test.


Also, think about this one...if you purposefully run your reg on the high side of your sweet spot, your gun could potentially jump dramatically in FPS if you auto triggered or shot rapidly. Of course, that is more a product of the valve than the propellant. The same could be done with HPA or bulk CO2, given a slow enough recharge rate on your reg.

I think overall there is a necessity to sweet spot your reg not just for efficiency and feel, but for chrono safety as well.
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Old 03-14-2009, 12:15 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Here's a video, I get 28 shots before camera cuts out. Gun is still going strong around 300fps at shot 28.

YouTube - Sniper II 12 gram testing - unmodified WGP gun
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Old 03-14-2009, 12:48 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Russ what pressure do you think it was regged at? 500?

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Old 03-14-2009, 01:02 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I just made a pressure tester...it's a 0-1500 ashcroft, so this is on the low end of its scale but it was reading about 240 psi. The gun is a stock nightkast, I just sweetspot it by chrono not by gauge readings.
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Old 03-14-2009, 01:14 AM   #9 (permalink)
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240! well that's what's going on. fill that macro line up and I bet your get 5 shots more
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Old 03-14-2009, 01:25 AM   #10 (permalink)
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5 is pushing it... prolly more like a couple more
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