Paintball

[chopper duke]

Originally Posted by EDDAKA

What spring kit duke?

DSA, can you cock and shoot the marker without air? Since the mainspring is stronger than the valve I assume so.

I again tried cj's spring set, and because the mainspring is stronger than the valve, a small "pop" can be heard when you pump, since the valve spring is so light. What am I missing here?

-Richard

I'm not sure. It came back from Carter's that way. The red valve is very heavy though and the silver I would say is medium-ish.

[lechooch]

Originally Posted by EDDAKA

What spring kit duke?

DSA, can you cock and shoot the marker without air? Since the mainspring is stronger than the valve I assume so.

I again tried cj's spring set, and because the mainspring is stronger than the valve, a small "pop" can be heard when you pump, since the valve spring is so light. What am I missing here?

-Richard

You got it backwards bro. You can cock and shoot without air only if you have a very strong valve spring and a weak main spring.

[CJOttawa]

Originally Posted by DSA

I have never advocated to a stronger valve spring that's like asking for root beer with out the beer, although you can serve it the other way around with outstanding results doesn't mean you'll enjoy straight up roots without the beer. I just let the masses post up that dribble without batting an eye.

I have always even back in the day used this method with long guns too. I really don't buy into the short vs long gun theory although I am sure there is some truth to consider on the subject but honestly, I usually adjust my velocity via freak insert or TPC. Its kinda weird I know, but it works for me. I think I have only changed my spring combo three or four times since 2008 and that was for out of state play....Damn Jersey winters.

DSA,

I'll leave you with this to ponder.

Long barrel rifle with a slow burn powder versus shorter barrel rifle or pistol with a fast burn powder. That's the difference between long dwell and short dwell.

Bad combinations:

• Slow burn/short barrel: the propellant is still burning after the projectile is away.
• Fast burn/long barrel: the propellant has stopped burning before the projectile is away and the barrel is only creating friction.

Don't respond right away; let it mull for a while.

Originally Posted by lechooch

You got it backwards bro. You can cock and shoot without air only if you have a very strong valve spring and a weak main spring.

One other circumstance: if you cut your hammer spring so it isn't compressed when uncocked. I've confirmed this recently, depending on what spring is used.

This also aids in preventing hammer bounce since the spring doesn't re-compress when the hammer returns.

[worrptangl]

Earon most likely put one of his 20# valve springs in. He did that to my boxgun.

[DSA]

Originally Posted by chopper duke

I did some testing today that can be read here:
Duck Efficiency

Keep in mind my Duck is fixed barrel so I don't have the convenience of a freak kit for it.

Just gotta rub it in......some people

Rich my dux won't cock dry but it would be cool if it did I probably would never stop cocking it. If you hear a pop turn your TPC out just a bit or you are cocking it too hard.

CJ don't get me wrong what you and countless others have said all makes sense I just don't go to all that trouble because I don't have those issues. I actually tried weak front strong valve and it didn't work for me even with my 14in SI barrel. Although I got 47 shots off my Redux I really wholeheartedly only care about one good shot so I usually change after 10-20 shots.

I have however on occassion run my dux dry and been in a world of hurt changing because I didn't pay attention to the "pop" that became a "thud!" I mean hell, I'm saving so much on paint what's a few 12gms between friends. Heck if the weather would corporate and the wife would stop naggin I might be inclined to follow your advise and might possibly squeak out 50+ shots going weak on strong.

[EDDAKA]

Quick bump. I was hoping to go out to the field today (sunday) but alas it's freakin rainy. So no chrono for me to test out.

So the the red madman is the hardest mainspring (right?) and the weakest valve spring is green. I noticed that the madman (autococker springs in general) are a tad bit longer than CCI/nelson springs. I can still dry fire without air.

Am I missing something somewhere that said I have to cut down the autococker springs to be the same size as nelson? I thought it was plug in and play. I realize that by being longer it means that they have more force pushing against the cupseal, which could offset how weak they are.

-Richard.

[short304]

Originally Posted by EDDAKA

I thought it was plug in and play. I realize that by being longer it means that they have more force pushing against the cupseal, which could offset how weak they are.

-Richard.

Rich - you are correct. They are a bit long, but they will work; plug and play w/o being cut. You will notice that they cause a slight pressure on the valve body when you're putting everything back together, but as you said this will only simply increase the main spring pressure... although I have the least Nelson-master-foo skills of anyone that monitors this thread, so I'm sure someone else will have better info for you.

I'm interested to see what results you get, becuase I'm 90% certain the spring kit I have is a Madman (or other Autococker) spring kit. I've tried CCI springs and couldn't get it up!

Let us know how it goes man!

[PB Weasel]

Don't cut the extra length off the autococker springs, you want that. Just be sure the spring you use floats freely over the TPC and does not bind or hang up inside the hammer or bolt recesses. If the spring does hangup on anything it will be wasting energy trying to overcome the friction caused by dragging and not fully utilizing the springs potential.

[DSA]

If you marker is cocking dry, your valve spring is too long.

[EDDAKA]

So since it's so damn cold (in texas..) i will have to hold off on tuning it. Freakin bummer. Winter is a depressing time for redux owners.

I did however find two combo's I *think* will work.

Red main, green valve. I found some real nelson green/red spring's so I don't have to cut anything down. Unfortunately i don't have a yellow valve spring!!!

The other one is red valve, yellow main. Which is the exact opposite of the previous mentioned spring combo. I saw ironchef using it in his duck.

I look forward to seeing how both of these do once the weather hits about 70F