Paintball

[CJOttawa]

Background & Purpose

The Redux valve inlet is directly below the powertube gas inlets. The result of this is gas not using the entire valve interior volume to expand and liquid going directly into the powertube in the first several shots off the 12-gram.

This tends to shred brittle tournament-grade paint, making Marblizer and X-Ball Gold/Silver unusable in the Redux.

The purpose of a valve insert, per the diagrams and photos below, is to redirect gas to the rear of the valve so that it will expand prior to reaching the powertube.

As the posts below report, a valve insert works quite well with the Redux!

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See all of the attached photos for dimensions. (taken while part was in digital calipers)

Material used was K&S brass tubing, .014" wall thickness, 15/32" O.D.

Originally discussed at length in this thread:
Redux Efficiency: Valve Modding

Among other projects completed today, one was a valve insert made from the K&S brass tubing previously discussed.

While I don't have extensive test data yet, I will share some qualitative observations.

CONFIGURATION:

• Redux R043
• stock powertube (#4 milled to #6 specs by Mongo, effectively a #6)
• milled 25-gram hammer (stock hammer was 40-grams)
• red (strong) main hammer spring
• blue (medium) valve spring
• Mosa food grade 12-gram
• 0.675 TyMcneer brass Freak barrel insert
• firing re-balls
• brass valve insert (specs and photos to follow)
• all other parts stock unless noted

The pierce pin assembly will interfere with the insert unless the assembly is ground down slightly. No leak observed, however, the assembly will have to be monitored for signs of backing out.
See this photo of the pierce-pin assembly with enough of the threading ground down to accommodate the insert. (9mm length)
http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/a...e_insert-8.jpg

INITIAL OBSERVATIONS:

• no cloud of gas out the muzzle (previously, a cloud of gas could be seen on the first few shots)
• reduced noise signature
• velocity measured at 295fps

Read into that what you like. I believe this shows promise.

When I have hard test data, I will modify this post and add to the thread.

A big "thank you" goes to PMI 3 who deserves all the credit for making this valve insert; all I did was show up with brass tubing and a Redux and drink tea. Thanks pal!

[splattttttt]

Hope to see some data soon CJ. GL brah.

[Canuck]

[QUOTE=cjottawa;
A big "thank you" goes to PMI 3 who deserves all the credit for making this valve insert; all I did was show up with brass tubing and a Redux and drink tea. Thanks pal![/QUOTE]

Aw shucks... It would look a whole lot prettier if I didn't have to use the "lap lathe"... Oh yeah, remember, measure twice, cut once

[Magoo]

I'll give this a try. I wonder if I can use Delrin...

[russc]

You need something thin and strong, I'm not sure delrin would work. There is an initial burst of pressure as you pierce the 12 gram, and a pressure when the gun is fired, which will collapse weak materials.

I also think that it is worth looking into improving the flow into the cupseal, possibly by porting around it at the top of the insert opposite of the pierce pin. There is very little room left between the cupseal and insert as it is, which may hurt efficiency.

[splattttttt]

Why not use one of ASP Online Store: Beswick M3LS-101x Right Angle Barb... Or similar? To connect to the exit end of the insta pierce to direct flow away from the cup seal?

[DSA]

Cmon guys whay not just get a Magic Box attached?

Actually this idea looks cool I like the Delrin idea DT. Has anyone ever tried putting a micro pressure guage on the end of the well? Similar to the phantom set up. I think this might expand the chamber a bit and should result in some interesting results.

[CJOttawa]

Originally Posted by splattttttt

Why not use one of ASP Online Store: Beswick M3LS-101x Right Angle Barb... Or similar? To connect to the exit end of the insta pierce to direct flow away from the cup seal?

I'd considered this but I think physics is working against us. Gas will take the path of least resistance so even if the barb directs high-pressure gas or liquid away from the power-tube outlets, it will immediately change direction and put us back where we started.

Originally Posted by DSA

Cmon guys whay not just get a Magic Box attached?

Actually this idea looks cool I like the Delrin idea DT. Has anyone ever tried putting a micro pressure guage on the end of the well? Similar to the phantom set up. I think this might expand the chamber a bit and should result in some interesting results.

I'm not convinced expanding the valve volume will help. I know boring out the chamber added a few shots on DeTrevni's 'dux but I honestly don't think that's the right direction to go; it's a kludge that tries to compensate for the gas inlet being too close to the outlet by giving the gas more volume to expand into.

Look at the supporting evidence: Phantoms get better efficiency on de-volumized, "bobbed" valves. We don't need more volume for efficiency. Phantom valves have gas inlets far away from the outlet, either at the rear or the side near the rear, giving gas time and space to expand before reaching the outlet of the powertube.

[DSA]

Originally Posted by cjottawa

Look at the supporting evidence: Phantoms get better efficiency on de-volumized, "bobbed" valves. We don't need more volume for efficiency. Phantom valves have gas inlets far away from the outlet, either at the rear or the side near the rear, giving gas time and space to expand before reaching the outlet of the powertube.

correct me if I'm wrong but don't VSC Phantoms get upwards of 45 shots or so the claim is? That being said the VSC has that long steel tube for gas to expand so how wold this not be similar?

About the insert, how do you keep it aligned? I'm sure when the spring and tube are screwed in it rotates ... Just askin, WDYT?

[DSA]

Hey CJ were you actually getting a C02 cloud with your Redux?

On the flipside have you attempted using a non modified #4, this would effectivly limit the amount of gas released per shot would it not? I assume Steve went big for a reason. I recommend picking up several different power tubes and testing over a cold beer.