Paintball

[DSA]

After reviewing Cj's Anti Pinch thread I actually started wondering what makes me able to shoot my Redux on the fly with ease. Instead of taking his thread in a new direction I thought it would be more appropriate to dedicate one to the actual fluidity of the marker itself. To be quite honest his thread should be dedicated to the mod itself without going off in several different directions. Although I do not agree with his premise I am of the opinion that the Redux is not for everyone. On one of the Carter Machine threads I was asked :

Originally Posted by worrptangl

DSA no duck for your son?

And my reply:

Originally Posted by DSA

No, a Duck of any flavor is an acquired taste, much like a fine wine it should not be served before it's time. The players time not the ducks.

You'll grow into the meaning of my answer within time young Padawan

Only after hearing some people were having an issue with the feed ability I decided to make my initial video sitting on my bunk at Ft. Dix but that really didn't tell the whole story.

YouTube - Redux Loading Technique

Even mOngo chimed in which is a rarity these days and his reply to the Anti Pinch issue was as follows:

Originally Posted by mOngo

CJ- slowly will let the next ball fall and get pinched when the pump handle is brought forward!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! there is no detent to prevent the pinch! Any S/C or even D/F gun - CCI, Carter, Redux Factory will all do this- more so with small paint. You are probably frustrated- as I am, in hearing these issues. The motion required is a quick muzzle dip while pumping, and then a quick lift of the muzzle at closing- the pump should be quick, full stroke, and confident that you are now ready to aim and eliminate your opponent. That's it, no sitting in front of the TV with re-balls and pumping 1000 times trying to master your "pump-groove" or develop a "secret technique"...... especially not slow or calm. I welcome ideas to help solve any issues with the 'Dux and will continue to listen and keep an open mind- and thanx for your and Mar's comments. Mongo

In order to get a real idea of how the Redux functions we really must dissect actual game play. As luck would have it I actually have some in game footage which illustrates exactly how I shoot my Redux. I guess I never really critiqued my shooting style or why I have no problems putting ball on target time after time but after watching the video I see how I do it at real time.

Redux owners please take into consideration I have had my Dux for three years now and have put lots of paint through it to include a full week of D-Day, it's all I play with period! Although the Redux was not my first SC Marker it was the first time I have ever shot a Slide SC marker and with that come a small learning curve. I have never considered myself a snap shooter but after reviewing the footage for the first time I came to the conclusion it is possible to put several rounds down range in a very short period of time.

Last weekend I was able to get out to play and had a fantastic day of it. Unfortunately, I failed to check out the aim of my Contour HD so most of the footage leaves the viewer feeling as if they need tilt their head back just a bit to get the full view. I kept it brief, the move netted me a major elimination in the game resulting in a flag pull. Sorry for the echo effect I was dinking around and later could not remove it. I have more footage of just the same kind of Snap Shooting I do with my Redux with I will update in the next few days.

YouTube - Redux Snap Shooting

I would now like to open this thread up for discussion. Feel free to post up your thoughts, ideas and video's.

[BlueDragonX]

Sadly, none of your videos appear to work for me. I just see white squares on the screen.

Is it just me?

[Chaos]

Someone needs to learn how to post Youtube videos lol


Here's the initial video



Here's his snap shooting video

[idkfa]

Search YouTube for "Redux Snap Shooting" in the meantime.

EDIT: The meantime is apparently over.

[DSA]

Sorry fellas I figured all I had to do was place the URL in between the YouTube cap. Its too bad about the echo setting cuz at the end a huge flurry of balls was coming my way as I grabbed the flag thats the tap tap tap echo sound. As always I was the only one playing SC one ball in the pipe! I completely took out the left tape crawled a good 50 -60 ft hopped up took out another dude and ended up in a trench coming up into the flag station. The olny reason you I got any footage was the fact I was going up hill. I was really sad to see most of the footage was unusable.

[CJOttawa]

I'll tell you how I merc electro-toters, regularly.

• I use the gun's sights.
• Whatever I'm looking at, my barrel is pointing at.
• I stay quiet and motionless until I want to move and then I move with a purpose.
• I line up my sights looking through cracks in bunkers, snap out and fire and then pop back into cover.
• I use very high end paint for consistency
• My gun is tuned to perfection.

I'm still amazed how few people catch on. If I see a hopper, shoe or barrel sticking out, I'm taking a shot and there's a good chance I'll hit.

If someone's laying a rope on my bunker, I'm not sticking my head out. I'll look for a crack or knot hole in my bunker to sight them through, snap out and duck back. Sooner or later, they're going to take one because they're still exposed and shooting while my ball is in flight and I'm safely back in cover.

...


Bonus YouTube mini tutorial
Here's your vid's URL from YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdZMe...layer_embedded

The bit you want for embedding is the gobble-dee-gook after "v=" (as in "video equals").
You also want to delete the "&feature=player_embedded".

So... with yours, just copy:
LdZMe_jI2yU
...and put that between the youtube tags.

[Deuce]

Originally Posted by Originally Posted by mOngo

CJ- slowly will let the next ball fall and get pinched when the pump handle is brought forward!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! there is no detent to prevent the pinch! Any S/C or even D/F gun - CCI, Carter, Redux Factory will all do this- more so with small paint. You are probably frustrated- as I am, in hearing these issues. The motion required is a quick muzzle dip while pumping, and then a quick lift of the muzzle at closing- the pump should be quick, full stroke, and confident that you are now ready to aim and eliminate your opponent. That's it, no sitting in front of the TV with re-balls and pumping 1000 times trying to master your "pump-groove" or develop a "secret technique"...... especially not slow or calm. I welcome ideas to help solve any issues with the 'Dux and will continue to listen and keep an open mind- and thanx for your and Mar's comments. Mongo

I have to disagree there. I have no pinching issues whatsoever with my Phantom. I only need to "rock in" the last 2-3 shots at that. The rest I can hold the marker steady and on target.

Originally Posted by DSA

In order to get a real idea of how the Redux functions we really must dissect actual game play. As luck would have it I actually have some in game footage which illustrates exactly how I shoot my Redux. I guess I never really critiqued my shooting style or why I have no problems putting ball on target time after time but after watching the video I see how I do it at real time.

Redux owners please take into consideration I have had my Dux for three years now and have put lots of paint through it to include a full week of D-Day, it's all I play with period! Although the Redux was not my first SC Marker it was the first time I have ever shot a Slide SC marker and with that come a small learning curve. I have never considered myself a snap shooter but after reviewing the footage for the first time I came to the conclusion it is possible to put several rounds down range in a very short period of time.

Last weekend I was able to get out to play and had a fantastic day of it. Unfortunately, I failed to check out the aim of my Contour HD so most of the footage leaves the viewer feeling as if they need tilt their head back just a bit to get the full view. I kept it brief, the move netted me a major elimination in the game resulting in a flag pull. Sorry for the echo effect I was dinking around and later could not remove it. I have more footage of just the same kind of Snap Shooting I do with my Redux with I will update in the next few days.

YouTube - Redux Snap Shooting

I would now like to open this thread up for discussion. Feel free to post up your thoughts, ideas and video's.

I do like these threads and discussions a lot. They are great for analyzing much more than the topic itself. I love the design of the 'dux and will have one to call my own some day but that will be down there road.

I agree that all guns have their own quirks that will take some getting used to, this can even be the case amongst the same model from gun to gun or batch to batch. I disagree however, that someone should have to completely change the way they play due to what can be shown as a "flaw" in a design whether that's accepted or not.

From what I've read and seen some have problems, some do not and then there are some that have problems and act like they don't. I'm not sure if it's because they don't want to admit there is an issue with something they paid so much money for or if they are afraid to be attacked and ridiculed for speaking up.

Either way, it's obvious that the issue isn't imaginary.

Just my $0.02, take it as you will. As I said before, I'll have my own one of these days, but would likely mod it as well if it was needed.

[DSA]

Originally Posted by Deuce

I have to disagree there. I have no pinching issues whatsoever with my Phantom. I only need to "rock in" the last 2-3 shots at that. The rest I can hold the marker steady and on target.

I'll be the first to say slides shoot differently than horizontal or DF Phantoms. Take my quotes from my very first Redux thread way back in July of 2008. They are not for everyone.

Originally Posted by DSA

July 26, 2008

First and foremost get yourself the full Freak Insert kit before even hitting the field. I was lucky enough that the field paint was “Premium” being roughly 68.8 I picked up the 69.1 grey freak insert the night before. Lucky in the fact the only insert the shop had left was actually the 69.1. mOngo was correct in stating the key to 12 gram play is the paint to bore size match. That being said it shot like a dream. I had a few moments during the game where the ball would double feed ½ way but that was more than likely due to a bad ball rather than a problem with the marker. Had I not had the proper insert it would have double fed loading two balls in the tube. A quick tilt to allow the odd ball to fall back into the feed tube was all it took.

Stock class purists may get there onions in a bind but the truth is just about any stock class horizontal feeder feeds just as fast if the marker is tilted to forward. Keep in mind as with all feed tubes you must allow 1 ball space to rock it just a bit. If you fully load it up the pressure the balls place on each other will not allow the front ball to drop.

Finally have a good time, it will take a few games to get used to the Redux’s style of play.

You can actually see in the video I have a very distinct way I pump, I am sure I adapted to it. I really couldnt explain how I played with it until I viewed the video. I just threw it out there for you guys to digest. What really surprised me is the fact how quickly I could get balls off with my Dux. When I first started to play Redux ball I only went through 50-80 balls a day, now I find myself taking more rapid shots and have Upgraded my output to 150-200 a day. Sure it will never cycle quicker than a CCM T2 but I'll throw beans against any Breech fed marker out there and anyone else who wants to play

[Deuce]

Originally Posted by DSA

I'll be the first to say slides shoot differently than horizontal or DF Phantoms. Take my quotes from my very first Redux thread way back in July of 2008. They are not for everyone.

I would imagine that to be true but the statement made by Steve was that any D/F or S/C gun would pinch like that. Mine hasn't pinched a single ball and requires no special technique. This is even with small paint. I was shooting Allstar that was just right in my .678 barrel so small paint can't even be used as a scapegoat for pinching.

[CJOttawa]

Originally Posted by Deuce

I would imagine that to be true but the statement made by Steve was that any D/F or S/C gun would pinch like that. Mine hasn't pinched a single ball and requires no special technique. This is even with small paint. I was shooting Allstar that was just right in my .678 barrel so small paint can't even be used as a scapegoat for pinching.

I'm with you on this one Deuce.

A moving feed gun like a Duck or DuckSlide has very different issues than a fixed feed-system gun like a Nelspot or Phantom.

With a Phantom, the only place for a ball to get pinched is if a second ball partly feeds and gets "clipped" by the bolt when pumping forward. This usually doesn't happen though because the second ball just gets pushed back out of the breech by the nose of the bolt.

With a Duck, the whole feed system has the ability to catch a second ball and crush it against the body (aka "snub").