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Old 04-05-2011, 04:14 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Thumbs up "Redux" of DSA's Forty Seven

I sent Steve my duck about a year and a half ago, for numerous repairs and “upgrades”. Originally I had asked him to repair my slammer (it was leaking), add a millet sight, and make a snub with a removable freak barrel. The reason for the snub was to solve rollouts which were frustrating me to no end at the time! The new snub and freak barrel were finished in a short time, but Steve was running into a problem with the slammer repair. He was able to get it to seal about 95% of the time, but the other 5% of the time it still leaked.

It is no secret that I was getting antsy and frustrated with the wait! A few weeks ago, I asked Steve if he could just make me a twist handle frame to replace the slammer frame. In less than 2 weeks the frame was finished and installed to create my reduck. No it's not a typo, I like to think of it as a hybrid between a Redux and a Carter duck, since it using parts from both guns. Carter parts: slide, rail, valve, hammer, bolt, and springs. Redux parts: snub, barrel, frame, trigger, and in-handle twist knob.

Pictures from Steve (prior to the millet sight being added):




My crappy camera phone pictures:



Seeing the end result in person is even more amazing. It points and shoots like a dream, with the important added bonus of being able to use freak inserts for today's paint. Steve also was kind enough to make a stainless steel ring to cover the gap between the valve and the snub, which you can see in the picture below .



I was told with the new freak snub/barrel, the pistol was getting 30 useful shots with the last shot chronoing at 260. That was already an 7-8 shot improvement over the old slammer setup, and I would be happy going to the field and playing with those numbers. In fact, I took the reduck to the field this past Saturday, and with the freak barrel upgrade I was able to get 7 eliminations my first game (against renters though)! Let me tell you, not having to worry about rollouts is a huge relief (the original bore of the old snubs is .691)! Before leaving the field, I did a chrono test, and ended up with the following FPS results:

Specs for both tests:
  • .682 SS freak insert
  • .679-.683 WPN Toxic (40$ field paint)
  • 6.25" redux barrel
  • Yellow (weak) main spring
  • Red (strong) valve spring, with a seat. (basically a small metal nub behind the valve spring, give the spring a higher tension)
  • ~70*F
  • 4-5 seconds between shots
  • Carter powertube with a .195" ID, with 3 inlet ports. Basically a very high flow powertube.
  • Carter venturi bolt and hammer (around 45grams for Test 1)

Test 1
287
282
280
290
280
263
278
277
264
260 - shot 10
271
264
0
279
261
265
266
255
265
259 - shot 20
270
265
264
250
269
265
252
249
252
243 - shot 30
236
200
-
That's about 30 shots above 250, not bad!

I'm sure if I had used higher quality, consistently sized paint the velocity would have been higher and more consistent. As it was, some shots the balls were not underbored well.

However, I am a huge tinkerer and while 30 shots above 250 is already great, I wanted to see if I could push that number to 40 shots. I went home and polished all the internals and points of contact to a mirror shine using my buffing wheel, and I milled my hammer down to 30 grams. It's kind of difficult to see the slots I milled, but it is modeled after the style of the original Lapco lightweight hammers.



I will let the results speak for themselves.

Test 2
277
283
282
276
273
275
271
258
262
268 - shot 10
261
265
257
265
245
260
258
262
257
250 - shot 20
242
269
264
265
268
263
265
250
255 - shot 30
255
257
257
259
265
251
260
261
263
250 - shot 40
256
248
251 - shot 43
232
225
223
201 (shot number 47!)

I did it!!! I tied DSA !!

I was using the exact same setup and paint as before, with the only difference being the polished internals and lightened hammer. In my opinion, 250 is about the absolute minimum effective velocity unless I am shooting very close. Taking that into account, that's a change from 31 shots above 251 to 42 shots above 251, an 11 usable shot improvement!

My next step is to try shooting some consistent-sized high quality paint (ultra evil), underbore with a .680 brass insert from worrptangl, and get an extended Redux barrel. I think combining those features may net me a shot count up to 50 shots above 250. I am also thinking of installing a valve diffuser sleeve to try and even out my velocity curve.

To end, I would like to thank Steve for his patience, hard work and putting up with my *** in updating a classic into a modern day paintslinging machine!

PS: I am using this with no lube between the slide and snub..despite that, the action is very smooth!

Last edited by ironchef97; 04-05-2011 at 04:24 AM.
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Old 04-05-2011, 08:32 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Damn fine results iron! Honestly other than the knob and trigger hole alignment I would be hard pressed to tell a difference in the craftsmanship of you trigger frame. I actually like Steves trigger holes much better. To me the seem more in line but that's just my opinion. I am however really diggin Earon's duck tail it's way cool indeed. Lastly you went light and it worked out perfect. I now need to rethink my old school ways
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Old 04-05-2011, 09:49 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Man, when Steve is done with the Reduxs' I may have to ask him about getting mine worked on. I would KILL for an extended, freaked barrel on my duck.

Looks awesome Chef, good on ya! Every time I see that duck of yours, I am reminded of how jealous I am of the tail, it's the little things that really pull them together.
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Old 04-05-2011, 11:31 AM   #4 (permalink)
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About time you let the masses see this work of art! I see why you waited though. Now post it to the Carter section and the circle will be complete.

Now all you need is a shiny extended barrel and the world will be yours!
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Last edited by worrptangl; 04-05-2011 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 04-05-2011, 12:32 PM   #5 (permalink)
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WOW, good for you!!! You will have to let be fondle it sometime
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Old 04-05-2011, 12:37 PM   #6 (permalink)
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While I'm happy that you got it the way you want it... the world has lost another slam change duck.
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Old 04-05-2011, 12:46 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Slam changers, as cool as they are, seem like a huge PITA to me for they always seem to be finicky with 12gram length and constantly seem to need adjustment. Either way, nice duck.

One day I will get my hands on some form of duck or another, even if I have to make one myself.
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Old 04-05-2011, 01:59 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Actually he still has the slam frame just not installed
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Old 04-05-2011, 02:32 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I think you beat me Iron, I just took a look and my 46th shot was at 161 and the 47th had no reading but hit the fence. Either way the "Tweaking Challenge" is set you have done the unthinkable and that my friend is ducktacular!
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Old 04-05-2011, 03:33 PM   #10 (permalink)
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That's awesome Iron! Truly Awesome!

There's been a lot of discussion about lighter hammers and larger power tubes and various springs. I'll see if I can find the thread. I think it was the Review of the TPC and Hammer from ASP.
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