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Slim 05-19-2011 01:11 AM

GarPhantom Hybrid Issues
 
4 Attachment(s)
Not sure where to post this, but this seemed the most logical place.

I recently picked up a used Gargoyle pump, trigger frame, bucket changer and valve body. I had some old Phantom parts laying around and quickly threw together this monstrosity...
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First thing was the bucket changer leaks like a pig. Yes, I replaced the puncture pin seal. Yes I'm using Leland 12 grams and yes, I read the thread about leaking RTR bucket changers. I put a washer in the bottom of the bucket which stopped the leak, but man I hate half-assed band-aid fixes like that. Now I've got a bucket changer doesn't thread all the way on. Guess I need the 2 tiny washers that insert under the seal from RTR. Gotta say the CCI changer is 10x better as far as threading and sealing goes.

Next the brand new CCI valve spring I put in isn't long or strong enough as I'm popping every time I cock the pump back. I tried stretching out the spring, and inserting a washer in the back (behind the removable black plastic piece), but that didn't help.

I'm starting to see why the previous owner sold off these parts. I'm sure I can get these minor issues fixed, but I was wondering if anyone else out there tried setting up a Phantom/Garg hybrid like this, and ran into similar issues?

shadow_772 05-19-2011 02:30 AM

I have a full garg, haven't had any issues like you describe. Shoots like a dream. RTR, splattttt or someone will probably pop in here and give you some insight though.

RTR 05-19-2011 05:49 AM

Short on time but,...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slim (Post 1837757)
Next the brand new CCI valve spring I put in isn't long or strong enough as I'm popping every time I cock the pump back. I tried stretching out the spring, and inserting a washer in the back (behind the removable black plastic piece), but that didn't help.

The popping. Unscrew/Back out the guide rod farther which will make it hit the pin in the frame sooner and prevent the powertube from being hit yet still cock the gun. Make sure to tighten those nuts. One looks loose on the pics.

Springs are the same springs. It should just mean a proper placement of that guide rod will fix it.

The Vert air adapter is a CCI part so the threading and overall feel should be near the same. The bucket is a but larger on top over the CCI.

Contact me for the washers if you would like them.

Slim 05-19-2011 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTR (Post 1837890)
Short on time but,...

The popping. Unscrew the guide rod farther which will make it hit the pin in the frame sooner and prevent the powertube from being hit yet still cock the gun.

Springs are the same springs. I'll get with you more later.

OK. I replaced the metal washer in the bottom of the bucket changer with a thin bottle o-ring. No more leaks. The bucket now snugs up tight with a CO2 in place, but ya gotta make sure you put a real firm and quick twist on it. The only drawback is the cold 12 gram sticks to the o-ring after you unscrew it, but that's pretty minor.

Then I unscrewed the guide rod till the pump arm was backed off just before bottoming out inside the frame. No more popping. Thank you for the help on that one RTR. One thing I've learned here is how exact every tolerance must be in order for everything to work in conjunction with each other. One thread in either direction makes all the difference.

I guess with any performance product, a little tweaking is needed to get it set up perfectly.

Once everything was working correctly, I took out the chrono and put about 80 - 100 rounds through it. Lots of double feeds and a steady dropoff in velocity with each consecutive shot. Note that this has nothing to do with the RTR components, but is a function of the paint, stock CCI internals, and lack of an anti-doubler in the CCI breech. I encountered the same issues when it was set up as a basic VSC Phantom. This is just an overall observation on my part. I'm anxious to get the gun tuned correctly with a lightened hammer, etc, and see what it's true potential can be.

And to be more clear about my comment regarding the threading differences between the CCI bucket and RTR bucket - I'm referring to threading the bucket on without a CO2 in place (though I think this has an effect on how well it threads on with a CO2 in place too). The CCI bucket seems to "grab" at the end (top) of the thread, which snugs it in place nicely. The RTR bucket, on the other hand, is comparatively "loose" for the entire thread. When I got the used RTR parts, the male section of the changer (with the piercing pin) had a large o-ring at the top of the threads. Is this how it is supposed to be? While the o-ring snugs the bucket in place, it also keeps the bucket from threading all the way up. We're talking mere fractions here, but I guess that's all it takes to make a good seal or not. I took it off and it sealed better, but remains a little loose without a CO2 in place. Again, just an observation.

Overall, I love the feel of the Gargoyle frame and pump. Much more beefy and substantial than the Phantom, and makes it feel like you're carrying something serious. However, it's not much heavier than the Phantom which is nice. The trigger pull is sweetness, though I did notice you need to keep your finger off the trigger COMPLETELY while pumping, or you'll auto the thing. With that said, the auto-trigger couldn't get any smoother. Like buttah.

I'll be meeting Splattt this Saturday and check out his full Garg. I have a ton of questions for him.

Slim 05-19-2011 11:46 AM

Just to add, I didn't mean to come off as snippy in my first post so I apologize if it sounded that way. Just a bit frustrated as I have a big game Saturday and am running into all sorts of little annoyances that put me on edge. Bottom line is the RTR parts look like quality, and I'm happy I picked them up.

Redbeard the Pirate 05-19-2011 12:20 PM

Do yourself a favor and get the ASP detent mod body... NIGHT AND DAY difference. I have a garg body now, but if I had to go back to a stock phantom the first upgrade I would get would be the ASP mod.

Wish I had advice for the 12ie changer, I went modified stock class years ago and never looked back :p

Slim 05-19-2011 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redbeard the Pirate (Post 1838318)
Do yourself a favor and get the ASP detent mod body... NIGHT AND DAY difference. I have a garg body now, but if I had to go back to a stock phantom the first upgrade I would get would be the ASP mod.

Wish I had advice for the 12ie changer, I went modified stock class years ago and never looked back :p

I've heard many good things about the ASP detent body so I might have to try one out.

As far as "modified stock-class" goes... That's what I call open-class. In my book it's either stock-class, or it ain't. The day I give up tubes and 12 grams is the day I give up paintball. :D

RTR 05-19-2011 04:26 PM

Love the look of that gun. Hope you can find a barrel that is silver that you like because that would make the gun very very easy on the eyes.

Slim 05-19-2011 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTR (Post 1838750)
Love the look of that gun. Hope you can find a barrel that is silver that you like because that would make the gun very very easy on the eyes.

LOL! I honestly built this in about 15 minutes using a bunch of old parts I had laying around. The barrel is an old Lapco that was within arms reach. I have an 11" silver Phantom barrel, but was too lazy to dig for it. Kinda rushing to put an extra gun together for the big stock-class game on Saturday here in CT.

Right now, I'm torn between making it a complete Gargoyle, or keeping it a hybrid. Either way, I'm seriously considering a hydrographic coating on this bad boy. I've seen a bunch done and they look outstanding. My main concern is how the coating holds up over time. If I don't go with hydrographics then I'll replace all the silver CCI parts with matching matte silver, including the barrel. I'll post pics of whatever I come up with.

splattttttt 05-20-2011 08:10 AM

I'll be bringing a gloss black open class CCI rf breech that has the ASP ball detente mod. I think it will blend well with the barrel if you want it.


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