Gargoyle Pump Binding

BlueDragonX · 01-09-2012, 01:39 PM

Ok, so I've got a bit of a problem. The secondary rod on my Garg is binding the bump stroke. I notice that the rod position doesn't line up exactly with the hole, so there's a bit of a problem there. But it doesn't bind all the time. If I loosen the rod and turn it to a particular position it's fine, but then the rod turns a bit and I have the problem again. The rod is perfectly straight, though, so no issue there.

I figure I'll try polishing the rod a bit and seeing if that helps. Next attempt would be finding the most optimal orientation of the rod and locktiting it in place.

Thoughts? Comments? Solutions from someone who's run into this before before I got breaking something?

Greenmtnphantom · 01-09-2012, 01:54 PM

Tighten the nut holding the rod in place with a wrench?

Sorry not to helpful but it's all I've got.

BlueDragonX · 01-09-2012, 01:57 PM

Tried that, the problem is when you tighten it that much it ends up turning the rod, so it's hard to get it right. It eventually loosens anyways.

Stitch · 01-09-2012, 03:20 PM

when I changed bushings I was worried about the rod positions so I measured them out a bit - mine was

guide rod measured out from tip of rod to edge of pump 3.5in and dead center straight - locked this one down first

the cocking rod measured right at 4 inches and clears the guide rod - so turned that one in and it angles in just a bit (rod straight but the 90 turn angles in slightly to mate with the bolt) once you lock both rods down you can sit the rods in the trigger frame and they should fit straight in with no angles or rub

thats what worked for me anyhow

BlueDragonX · 01-09-2012, 03:22 PM

Hmm. Well, mine don't sit straight up and down with the trigger frame is the root of the problem. Keeping the rods loose allows them to move with the stroke, which I find helps.

RTR · 01-09-2012, 05:24 PM

Hmmm, you should not have this issue. Did it just start happening?

I know we have not talked about this a lot in here lately.....but you may have angered the Pixies and they are playing jokes on you to drive you crazy.

In each case this has occurred it was only a matter of disassembly and assembly. If you are having issues with the nut backing off you can always place another on there to lock everything in position.

Don't forget that the guide rod needs to be positioned so that it just hits the SS pin inside the rail allowing the gun to cock but prevents the connecting rod from damaging the rail on the other side by stopping it when the guide rod makes contact with the SS Pin. (The Phantom has the same thing but uses the roll pin through the frame)

Diagnosis/Recommendation: Take it apart one more time, chant to the pixies and apologize for angering them, then put it back together. Try the second nut idea if you would like. Just clear it with the Pixies first.

BlueDragonX · 01-09-2012, 05:51 PM

I'll try fiddling with it a bit more, then. Just as soon as I get time

lechooch · 01-10-2012, 06:52 PM

I had this issue. I sent it to RTR and got it back working fine. I suggenst the same for you.

-Eric

Stitch · 01-11-2012, 12:53 AM

did ya get it fixed?

can snap pics of mine if not - and if it might help /shrug

BlueDragonX · 01-11-2012, 10:47 AM

Nope, not fixed, not to my satisfaction anyways.

I tried polishing the guide rod and the inside of the guide hole. Didn't help. Tried tightening the rods down in various configuration. Didn't help - made it worse actually.

What I noticed is when I leave the guide rod in the hole and inscrew it from the pump handle and tighten the thumb screw down, the threaded portion of the guide rod sits slightly higher than the hole on the pump handle. There's no binding when the guide rod isn't installed so it has to be at the guide rod.

Now, when I loosen the front thumbscrew it slides buttery smooth - but of course the body is loose and the thumbscrew isn't tight enough to stay on.

Finding that out I put an o-ring on the front frame screw between the body and the grip frame. I tightened the thumb screws down and it works perfectly. Except of course since it's an o-ring the body still wobbles back and forth.

So my conclusion is the guide rod hole is at just slightly the wrong angle and I've got no other ideas to fix it short of putting it on a mill, which I don't have.

01-09-2012, 01:39 PM	#1 (permalink)
BlueDragonX Dirty French Spy Join Date: Jun 2007	Gargoyle Pump Binding Ok, so I've got a bit of a problem. The secondary rod on my Garg is binding the bump stroke. I notice that the rod position doesn't line up exactly with the hole, so there's a bit of a problem there. But it doesn't bind all the time. If I loosen the rod and turn it to a particular position it's fine, but then the rod turns a bit and I have the problem again. The rod is perfectly straight, though, so no issue there. I figure I'll try polishing the rod a bit and seeing if that helps. Next attempt would be finding the most optimal orientation of the rod and locktiting it in place. Thoughts? Comments? Solutions from someone who's run into this before before I got breaking something? __________________ Proud XO of Ghost Recon

01-09-2012, 01:57 PM	#3 (permalink)
BlueDragonX Dirty French Spy Join Date: Jun 2007	Tried that, the problem is when you tighten it that much it ends up turning the rod, so it's hard to get it right. It eventually loosens anyways. __________________ Proud XO of Ghost Recon

01-09-2012, 03:20 PM	#4 (permalink)
Stitch Pump Dinosaur Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: in a van, by the river	when I changed bushings I was worried about the rod positions so I measured them out a bit - mine was guide rod measured out from tip of rod to edge of pump 3.5in and dead center straight - locked this one down first the cocking rod measured right at 4 inches and clears the guide rod - so turned that one in and it angles in just a bit (rod straight but the 90 turn angles in slightly to mate with the bolt) once you lock both rods down you can sit the rods in the trigger frame and they should fit straight in with no angles or rub thats what worked for me anyhow __________________ Stitch FC www.final-chapter.org my mcb feedback

01-09-2012, 03:22 PM	#5 (permalink)
BlueDragonX Dirty French Spy Join Date: Jun 2007	Hmm. Well, mine don't sit straight up and down with the trigger frame is the root of the problem. Keeping the rods loose allows them to move with the stroke, which I find helps. __________________ Proud XO of Ghost Recon

01-09-2012, 05:24 PM	#6 (permalink)
RTR MCB Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Massachusetts	Hmmm, you should not have this issue. Did it just start happening? I know we have not talked about this a lot in here lately.....but you may have angered the Pixies and they are playing jokes on you to drive you crazy. In each case this has occurred it was only a matter of disassembly and assembly. If you are having issues with the nut backing off you can always place another on there to lock everything in position. Don't forget that the guide rod needs to be positioned so that it just hits the SS pin inside the rail allowing the gun to cock but prevents the connecting rod from damaging the rail on the other side by stopping it when the guide rod makes contact with the SS Pin. (The Phantom has the same thing but uses the roll pin through the frame) Diagnosis/Recommendation: Take it apart one more time, chant to the pixies and apologize for angering them, then put it back together. Try the second nut idea if you would like. Just clear it with the Pixies first. __________________ www.remembertheronin.com http://isppa.semkhor.com/page.asp?content_id=9145

01-09-2012, 05:51 PM	#7 (permalink)
BlueDragonX Dirty French Spy Join Date: Jun 2007	I'll try fiddling with it a bit more, then. Just as soon as I get time __________________ Proud XO of Ghost Recon

01-10-2012, 06:52 PM	#8 (permalink)
lechooch Mcb's finest embarrasment Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southern California	I had this issue. I sent it to RTR and got it back working fine. I suggenst the same for you. -Eric __________________ Here are my current paintball activities: Pirranah SB restoration:http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/c...n-project.html Comprehensive High end SC marker review/comparison:http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/m...on-review.html Youtube Chanel:http://www.youtube.com/user/TheLechooch/videos Feedbackhttp://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/f...-feedback.html

01-11-2012, 12:53 AM	#9 (permalink)
Stitch Pump Dinosaur Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: in a van, by the river	did ya get it fixed? can snap pics of mine if not - and if it might help /shrug __________________ Stitch FC www.final-chapter.org my mcb feedback

01-11-2012, 10:47 AM	#10 (permalink)
BlueDragonX Dirty French Spy Join Date: Jun 2007	Nope, not fixed, not to my satisfaction anyways. I tried polishing the guide rod and the inside of the guide hole. Didn't help. Tried tightening the rods down in various configuration. Didn't help - made it worse actually. What I noticed is when I leave the guide rod in the hole and inscrew it from the pump handle and tighten the thumb screw down, the threaded portion of the guide rod sits slightly higher than the hole on the pump handle. There's no binding when the guide rod isn't installed so it has to be at the guide rod. Now, when I loosen the front thumbscrew it slides buttery smooth - but of course the body is loose and the thumbscrew isn't tight enough to stay on. Finding that out I put an o-ring on the front frame screw between the body and the grip frame. I tightened the thumb screws down and it works perfectly. Except of course since it's an o-ring the body still wobbles back and forth. So my conclusion is the guide rod hole is at just slightly the wrong angle and I've got no other ideas to fix it short of putting it on a mill, which I don't have. __________________ Proud XO of Ghost Recon

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