Paintball

[Crash]

Originally Posted by PhantomXJ

Theres not much refs can do about cheating since players typically wont do it when there around. Refs rarely catch ppl wiping since the player will normally check the surroundings before doing so. But how mainy times have you seen someone cheat right in front of you while playing, plenty. Thats why i love the idea of refs in play (undercover refs) and support the practice.
The last big event i played in i witnessed a player laying next to me plainly wipe a hit off his mask, and then the player next to him got hit in the hopper and simply decided to ignore me when i told him. After witness this within the FIRST 30minutes of the game i decided to sign up to be a ref in play.

I only ended up punching a card once, which was when i told a player he was out and he walked about 20ft away wiped off the hits and continued shooting. Would this player have wiped this if a uniformed ref was around, i highly doubt it.

This goes hand in hand with the bit I posted about not enough refs. Experiance is good but in some cases like the statement above numbers win out. Just seeing a uniformed ref will prevent alot of this because they just don't do it when we are around.

[Harbinger[TG]]

This is why most of the respectable fields and producers have player refs. I am a player/ref for Dollack and catch a fair amount of people wiping and playing on. I have had several players run from me when confronted. Most of them still get caught and have their ID punched.

[Shiba-Kun]

Originally Posted by Clearush

It would be considered "dead man talking" and that's cheating in most paintball. If someone is shooting and shoots you out yelling out is to alert the shooter to quit shooting because you've been marked.

Yelling "out" when you've been barrel tagged serves only as a cheat to alert your team to a concealed player AFTER you've been eliminated.

Also the usual rule is the player must have a barrel 10" or longer and verbaly identify "barrel tag" when they "barrel tag" someone to be a legit kill. If they don't verbalize "barrel tag" specificaly you can toe the line and shoot them, if they don't have a 10" barrel (or full marker) its not a kill.

But yes, being angry and shouting "Out" so that your team homes in on a concealed person after your dead, to get back for the sneak kill is considered bad sportmanship.

Sorry to bring it back up after a few days...

Thanks for your POV!

I guess just don't get how it would give an opponent away anymore then if they'd been eliminated via a normal means (being shot).

If concealment is the main concern then if I'm hit by a: sniper, trap paintmine/gernade, rocket, or other prop related to the scenario, etc. then I should walk off the field w/o verbally giving voice to my elimination.

Now if you'd tagged me and I turned around and said something like "Hey man! Nice tag, you got me good!" (even in a less then a raised voice) then for sure I'd say you'd have a definite reason for being disappointed by my actions.

[flyweightnate]

Back to the barrel tag issue, I think it just needs to be made clear. I've only played in one scenario on an over-packed field (IMHO), Bastogne at Bearclaw last April. 687 people, not enough room for em.

During the night play, I barrel tagged 25+ consecutive people. I waited outside their base in a ditch, listening to their "code words" and stuff, till I got it all figured out. Then, using these "code words" (with my mask tape/ armband hanging out for the world to see) I got point blank on these guys, and just went right down the line tagging them all with my Phantom. I woulda had to reload three times to shoot them all!

I was probably 2/3 done with the crew, when someone I tagged yells at the top of his lungs, "Hey, this guy here just barrel tagged me! He's an American!" It redefined "bonus ball" for me, what happened next.

The first 2 dozen were completely legit. They quietly started to walk back to their base, not alerting anyone, really... they were downright stealthy about it, cuz no paint was in the air. That was cool. But that one guy... he probably wound up costing the Americans the game, cuz the game was so close, and they completed their mission b/c I wasn't able to finish the job taking them out.

But when someone puts that much time and effort into getting that close, and barrel tagging everybody, don't screw it up for them by being loud and obnoxious. A body hitting the ground doesn't make much noise, and in real life, you knife a guy, you're hitting lungs so he can't scream. So why do people feel the need to yell about it?

[Shiba-Kun]

Originally Posted by Clearush

paint doesn't always break even at 4 ft. even if you shoot the guy 4 times

Hahaha!

Yeah, I see your point. There needs to be a mechanism for eliminations other then shooting somebody and having a ball break on them (or their equipment).

It's just a matter of safety to some degree, where a player with a advantageous position is provided an out from not having to lay into a defenseless/disadvantaged opponent.

[ScrapIron]

Originally Posted by Shiba-Kun

Hahaha!

Yeah, I see your point. There needs to be a mechanism for eliminations other then shooting somebody and having a ball break on them (or their equipment).

It's just a matter of safety to some degree, where a player with a advantageous position is provided an out from not having to lay into a defenseless/disadvantaged opponent.

Thats why I love games with satchel charges, pipe bombs, and dynamite for the demos.

[Shiba-Kun]

I attended a scenario where they had a "black hole". Basically a black frisbee that was used as a powerful weapon. I think the rules for elimination was something like 30 paces from where the black hole came to rest. So the kill radius was substantial.

The problems starting happening when players didn't know they had been killed by the weapon. For example if a team used it on a group of say 10 opponents. By the time the refs got around to clearing the area, maybe 2-3 people had run away to continue to play on (it could be totally innocent that they didn't know they'd been taken out... or not), 2-3 people would complain about being in the blast zone or not in the blast zone, and only a small handful actually self-eliminated themselves w/o the refs having to pull them out. It was messy in it's implementation.

I've seen similar things happen with rocket/LAWS.

Not having a visible means (paint) of identifying a kill is one of the problems I've seen with props and other such scenario specific devices.

[Clearush]

Yes it is an issue which is why most specials require a ref to activly participate in thier usage.


Last game I had two mil-simmers run from me after unloading on me and a helo after I had just finished screaming about not shooting the helo. Needless to say they were pissed that I took the time to run them down and issue judge punches against them.

My other pet pevee is the "last word" player especialy the one you just warned for language. People get so ticked at normal scenario situations where they get lit up.

[Shiba-Kun]

Originally Posted by Clearush

Yes it is an issue which is why most specials require a ref to activly participate in thier usage.

Total agreement.

For example I know LAWS players will usually try to get a ref's attention before firing for that very reason. They want an official on top of the scene in order to sanctify their kills.

But how many refs are on each field? How many can be dispatched each time a rocket, black hole, etc. is deployed?

If the ref hedges towards where the player is aiming a rocket (so they can verifiy the blast radius), then is the ref now giving the intended targets a hint about an impending attack?

To me scenario ball is really a messy set of circumstances. I guess I like the KISS simplicity of a regular woodsball game of Capture the Flag or whatnot. But in no means am I disparaging those that partake. One of the great things about p-ball is theres multiple niches for players to participate in.

[Clearush]

well it does come across as a cluster**** of barely controled chaos at times, it really depends on the quality of the players at your event. The more honest and clean players will keep the few cheater in check as long as they are in the majority. Which is where alot of people have issue with bring all the wiping foul mouth cheaters from tourney ball into scenario since it messes with the fragil balance of honest play.

But when it works its a whole lotta fun and a real nice change of pace from just shooting in recball.