Paintball

[Harbinger[TG]]

Originally Posted by AngelChaser

No, it's not the way it is. If your field has refs doing that then you need to look at who you are letting ref.

I for one am sick to death of players expecting everything handed to them because they payed to be there. I am sick of being called lazy because I refuse to bird-dog a hidden player because he's picking off players and they just spray an area and 'had to have hit him'. I am tired of having to educate every single player of the rules they were supposed to read.

And here's the real gripe I have. Players who take it upon themselves to 'educate' the refs, and the event promoter refuses to take action. Any player targeting a ref should be ejected. Period. No refunds, no excuses, no apologies.

Great post.

Tell Cliff I say hi and I hope to see you guys soon.

[10-shot kid]

LOL sorry my iPod changes words randomly

angel: sorry dude that's always been my experience, I'm not saying that its always so blatant but its always there. It's human nature to help out a friend more than a stranger. Let's even say that the other team is being pricks to you or acting contrary to the culture of your field. Anyone is going to change up their treatment of one person over another.

To rig a game like that though is blatant corruption and its going to bite people in the arse as we get more and more coverage on this side of the game. Look at how bad skirmish got blasted by facefull jungle for saftey bs. It will happen for rigged games soon enough as these new people find out more how the game is really run. I look forward to it.

Until then it will simply be the common way that it indeed is.

[AngelChaser]

Originally Posted by 10-shot kid

angel: sorry dude that's always been my experience, I'm not saying that its always so blatant but its always there.

Then, sad to say it, the fields you play at have sucky refs. Don't lump every ref in with them.

You'll note I bolded that it was your experience. Your experience must suck if it's always that way. We have never and will never show preference to any side.

I realize that not everyone is cut out for ref duty, and the bad refs are the ones you hear about. You never really hear about the good reffing, because it's taken for granted that refs should do a good job. And that is true, refs should be doing the best they can.

Lets just remember the main truth, if players did the right thing then refs wouldn't be necessary. Even bad refs

[tshields]

AngelChaser,

If the REFS don't know the rules and the players don't educate them, who is???? Should I as a player stoop to that low quality standard of reffing or should I expect the refs to know the rules and abide by and enforce them?

I was recently at a game and a player walked into a group of the opfor and as surrender, as all 10 of the players sat there looking stupid, the ref went over and said to the guy, I can't call them out because they didn't know you were alive!!!! WTF, he was shooting at them, and then when we all got over ran he and myself just stopped shooting and stepped to the side (yes I was still "alive" as well).... It's your kind of thinking that pisses me off, fields should take the time to educate there refs and STOP HAVING THOSE WANNABE "AGG" SPEEDBALL TROLLS AT SCENARIO GAMES!!!

All so, all refs should have RADIOS and WATER (for themselves)......

If I offended anyone, SO WHAT!!!!!

[Harbinger[TG]]

Originally Posted by tshields

AngelChaser,

If the REFS don't know the rules and the players don't educate them, who is???? Should I as a player stoop to that low quality standard of reffing or should I expect the refs to know the rules and abide by and enforce them?

I was recently at a game and a player walked into a group of the opfor and as surrender, as all 10 of the players sat there looking stupid, the ref went over and said to the guy, I can't call them out because they didn't know you were alive!!!! WTF, he was shooting at them, and then when we all got over ran he and myself just stopped shooting and stepped to the side (yes I was still "alive" as well).... It's your kind of thinking that pisses me off, fields should take the time to educate there refs and STOP HAVING THOSE WANNABE "AGG" SPEEDBALL TROLLS AT SCENARIO GAMES!!!

All so, all refs should have RADIOS and WATER (for themselves)......

If I offended anyone, SO WHAT!!!!!

I think the issue is if you listen to one player, you have to listen to them all. And we both know they would be taken advantage of. Also note that the Discipline Lords are one of the best ref teams in paintball.

[tshields]

SPEEDBALL refs have NO CLUE HOW TO REF A SCENARIO GAME, they are to used to 10 mins of play 40 minutes of break time, so thats how the REF the game....

[Harbinger[TG]]

Originally Posted by tshields

SPEEDBALL refs have NO CLUE HOW TO REF A SCENARIO GAME, they are to used to 10 mins of play 40 minutes of break time, so thats how the REF the game....

I agree. However, The Discipline Lords are not speedball refs. Look at this way. If you told a ref one thing, and then I told him the exact oppositte; who is he to believe? (me of course :P)

I think a major issues is where to get 100 quality refs for major games. Another issue is all these new fields and promoters running games with no experience and no experienced refs.

[Mstrtal]

The Discipline Lords are good refs...though occasionally one of their refs confuses American measurements with metric... =P

Cliff and Mary Rock they even inadvertently babysat for me one night after a game so the wife and I could enjoy a couple of friends in the swimming pool=)

One point that can NOT be stressed enough however and that is germane to the issue is quite simple. Every producer worth their games has clearly defined rules. They make these rules readily available to both the players and their refs. Further they have copies of their rules on hand at their events for any one who either feels the need for clarification or lacks full understanding.

Every one NOT just the refs needs to familiarize themselves with the rules. Yes the refs above and beyond every one present should know the rules that is a given. I am not saying otherwise. I am saying that Everyone should know the rules. A good production company generally has in their waver that you have read and understand the rules of play. A good player reads the rules before a game and understands the key points before signing on to play a game.

[10-shot kid]

garb, I say they just have to listen to the people with rulebooks on hand or players who by special cert./notice are well versed in the rules. At some games refs have listened to me over others because my reputation.

As I was trying to explain before this is a field bias that gives me an advantage because I dont have to wait for high command approval. There is many diffrent levels of favoritism, it's just the way it is. I'm more cocerned with the people who know they are cheating and can be stopped than blatant corruption thats both obvious and impossible for us to stop at field level.

[Harbinger[TG]]

Originally Posted by 10-shot kid

garb, I say they just have to listen to the people with rulebooks on hand or players who by special cert./notice are well versed in the rules. At some games refs have listened to me over others because my reputation.

As I was trying to explain before this is a field bias that gives me an advantage because I dont have to wait for high command approval. There is many diffrent levels of favoritism, it's just the way it is. I'm more cocerned with the people who know they are cheating and can be stopped than blatant corruption thats both obvious and impossible for us to stop at field level.

You could at least spell check my name dude.

That is exactly what I was saying to shields. Who would the refs listen to, obviously me. I think the major issue is the lack of experience from the field owner/promoter all the way down to the refs.