Discussion: Scenario Rules, Roleplaying and Cheating - Page 7

10-shot kid · 05-05-2008, 01:49 PM

"I have found the biggest key to reffing/coordinating is strict rule enforcement. Make the call, and stick to it. Don't let the player talk you out of the on the spot call." (BLC)

That's all well and good for big games or easy scenarios but at the more complicated ones I've been to, well viper games, I've seen many refs make incorect calls and then realize they where wrong after being respectfully talked to. Of course this is a huge issue, mainly the refs need to be trained by someone to the rule set of that game OR such complicated rules need to stop being used. So I think you can't really make any absolute statements on how to handle these things with how diverse this segment of the game is.

That diversity is unfortunatly for field owners and organizers what draws people to games. I don't want the same thing every time, I love curve balls. This makes the whole product I seek difficult to provide and at the same time other people who are seeking that product care enough about winning to be a bunch of asses. This causes huge issues if you go by the "on the spot call stands" standard. It works awesome in big games or simple scenario games but in the more complex ones I'd say no.

BLC_Misfire · 05-05-2008, 06:30 PM

I suppose I should elaborate there just a bit.

For your basics, like a player has been hit/walking dead/dead man talking... Those are 'on the spot calls.' In a scenario where coordination is needed, or a rule question is involved the coordinator must always be involved. As a coordinator though, it is on me to make sure I know when these times will occur. I have set up the entire situation after all.

Having a thoroughly briefed, ref crew is an absolute must. If they aren't prepared for some of the more unusual aspects I've built into a game, that falls on me. I've had more than a few pre-game sessions (some a week in advance, those are really helpful) where I've told the refs how I envision some part of the game occurring. They have usually been pretty good and ask me a ton of 'what ifs' that either make me clarify my thoughts, or rethink my approach.

I haven't coordinated in over a year and a half now. I wanted to take some time and play some paintball with my daughter instead of running games. Last year I wasn't able to do that since I had been laid off, this year I can. But I used a hybrid of the GSRP and SPPL. I incorporated mostly the penalty points from the SPPL rules into my set of rules. I've found that making a team suffer for a player's misdeeds gives me many more enforcers on the field than just the refs. The first time I did this, neither team had a positive score at the lunch break.

That's what I mean by ruthless enforcement of the rules. After that I had very few problems with over-shooting, dead men talking (I hate this one the most), dishonor of a referee...

On the spot calls are for strict rule enforcement, I have to trust my refs on those. The coordinator can't be involved in all those kinds of calls. For unusual things that involve special characters, or specific instances that are created by a mission, those calls have to be gotten right. So either a well briefed ref, the coordinator or both need to be involved.

A good coordinator will make interpretation as simple as possible though. A complicated situation that requires a lot of ref/coordinator interpretation is just a bad idea when paint is flying all around you.

It's also good to spell things out for the 'ethically' challenged. It's amazing to me how many ways players can screw up simple rules to get as much advantage out of them as possible. This is where the coordinator can't let a player talk him out of a call. Make the call, and stick to it. Someone will be pissed, that's all there is to it. They will be more pissed if you start waffling on your calls than if you make a call and stick to it.

For example, I've 'spelled out' rules for a final battle by actually marking boundaries. My first final battle was a mess, because some players interpreted the way I explained my boundaries in unexpected ways. By clearly marking them, I've removed any argument. I've kept it as simple as possible.

PS. Please call me Misfire. BLC refers to the team I'm on. We agreed as a team to put BLC in front of our names on all paintball related boards, so everyone would know who we represent.

lilmatt87 · 06-01-2008, 08:20 PM

Is there a thread or site we might do a read over?

Harbinger[TG] · 06-01-2008, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilmatt87

Is there a thread or site we might do a read over?

For what, the GSRP?

SCENARIOPAINTBALL.COM - Rules of Play

lilmatt87 · 06-01-2008, 09:13 PM

And you just happen to have that right Harp

Well maybe you could tell me how to get ride of that newbie thing under my name Mr Smartass

Harbinger[TG] · 06-01-2008, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilmatt87

And you just happen to have that right Harp

Well maybe you could tell me how to get ride of that newbie thing under my name Mr Smartass

Donate 10 bux for premium is the easiest way. Otherwise I think it is based on post count. Have you tried changing it in the userCP?

lilmatt87 · 06-02-2008, 06:22 AM

10 bucks holy crap just to change a few letters well i,ve paid higher bribes. Thanks Harp and yes i tried the users Cp

Chappy · 06-02-2008, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilmatt87

10 bucks holy crap just to change a few letters well i,ve paid higher bribes.

There are a few other perks to being a premium member besides changing a few letters... Mainly the members only section.

Harbinger[TG] · 06-02-2008, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chappy

There are a few other perks to being a premium member besides changing a few letters... Mainly the members only section.

Yeah, i probably should have mentioned that. 10 bux is nothing compared to some other places.

Chappy · 06-02-2008, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harbinger[TG]

10 bux is nothing compared to some other places.

And the "Official Paintball Girl" thread is worth the price of admission alone

05-05-2008, 06:30 PM	#62 (permalink)
BLC_Misfire C4 Founding Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Severance, CO	I suppose I should elaborate there just a bit. For your basics, like a player has been hit/walking dead/dead man talking... Those are 'on the spot calls.' In a scenario where coordination is needed, or a rule question is involved the coordinator must always be involved. As a coordinator though, it is on me to make sure I know when these times will occur. I have set up the entire situation after all. Having a thoroughly briefed, ref crew is an absolute must. If they aren't prepared for some of the more unusual aspects I've built into a game, that falls on me. I've had more than a few pre-game sessions (some a week in advance, those are really helpful) where I've told the refs how I envision some part of the game occurring. They have usually been pretty good and ask me a ton of 'what ifs' that either make me clarify my thoughts, or rethink my approach. I haven't coordinated in over a year and a half now. I wanted to take some time and play some paintball with my daughter instead of running games. Last year I wasn't able to do that since I had been laid off, this year I can. But I used a hybrid of the GSRP and SPPL. I incorporated mostly the penalty points from the SPPL rules into my set of rules. I've found that making a team suffer for a player's misdeeds gives me many more enforcers on the field than just the refs. The first time I did this, neither team had a positive score at the lunch break. That's what I mean by ruthless enforcement of the rules. After that I had very few problems with over-shooting, dead men talking (I hate this one the most), dishonor of a referee... On the spot calls are for strict rule enforcement, I have to trust my refs on those. The coordinator can't be involved in all those kinds of calls. For unusual things that involve special characters, or specific instances that are created by a mission, those calls have to be gotten right. So either a well briefed ref, the coordinator or both need to be involved. A good coordinator will make interpretation as simple as possible though. A complicated situation that requires a lot of ref/coordinator interpretation is just a bad idea when paint is flying all around you. It's also good to spell things out for the 'ethically' challenged. It's amazing to me how many ways players can screw up simple rules to get as much advantage out of them as possible. This is where the coordinator can't let a player talk him out of a call. Make the call, and stick to it. Someone will be pissed, that's all there is to it. They will be more pissed if you start waffling on your calls than if you make a call and stick to it. For example, I've 'spelled out' rules for a final battle by actually marking boundaries. My first final battle was a mess, because some players interpreted the way I explained my boundaries in unexpected ways. By clearly marking them, I've removed any argument. I've kept it as simple as possible. PS. Please call me Misfire. BLC refers to the team I'm on. We agreed as a team to put BLC in front of our names on all paintball related boards, so everyone would know who we represent. __________________ My MCB Feedback

06-01-2008, 08:20 PM	#63 (permalink)
lilmatt87 Rec Poster Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Hudson Valley NY	Proof reading Is there a thread or site we might do a read over? __________________ Master Blasters NY/RT's Raiders As oldschool as it gets

06-01-2008, 09:13 PM	#65 (permalink)
lilmatt87 Rec Poster Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Hudson Valley NY	And you just happen to have that right Harp Well maybe you could tell me how to get ride of that newbie thing under my name Mr Smartass __________________ Master Blasters NY/RT's Raiders As oldschool as it gets Last edited by lilmatt87; 06-01-2008 at 09:15 PM.. Reason: a ? for Harp

06-02-2008, 06:22 AM	#67 (permalink)
lilmatt87 Rec Poster Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Hudson Valley NY	10 bucks holy crap just to change a few letters well i,ve paid higher bribes. Thanks Harp and yes i tried the users Cp __________________ Master Blasters NY/RT's Raiders As oldschool as it gets

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05-05-2008, 01:49 PM	#61 (permalink)
10-shot kid Active Member Join Date: Apr 2008	"I have found the biggest key to reffing/coordinating is strict rule enforcement. Make the call, and stick to it. Don't let the player talk you out of the on the spot call." (BLC) That's all well and good for big games or easy scenarios but at the more complicated ones I've been to, well viper games, I've seen many refs make incorect calls and then realize they where wrong after being respectfully talked to. Of course this is a huge issue, mainly the refs need to be trained by someone to the rule set of that game OR such complicated rules need to stop being used. So I think you can't really make any absolute statements on how to handle these things with how diverse this segment of the game is. That diversity is unfortunatly for field owners and organizers what draws people to games. I don't want the same thing every time, I love curve balls. This makes the whole product I seek difficult to provide and at the same time other people who are seeking that product care enough about winning to be a bunch of asses. This causes huge issues if you go by the "on the spot call stands" standard. It works awesome in big games or simple scenario games but in the more complex ones I'd say no.