Paintball

[sloonan]

garb!

[Harbinger[TG]]

Another thing that goes with both speedball and scenario refs is age. I'm sorry but most refs are kids and are very inexperienced.

[Clearush]

ugh had to deal with one of those speedball refs at big castle game down here in Texas. He was making speedball tournament calls (asumes everyone is wiping so bounces count) I went to the owner and had him pulled for making a rec game unfun with bad calls.

As for bad producers, I guess live and learn and speak with your pocketbook, go to the good ones and avoid the bad ones.

[PhantomXJ]

I played my first night game last Staurday. The field is around 60 acres and there was prob around 400 players. There were about 10 teamates left and prob 70-80 enemies. Me and two others were behind a set of spindles along the tapeline just outside the village. One is shooting ppl in the side as they run past us and the other is watching the tapeline to hold off the ppl trying to bunker us.
ANYWAY we have a ref spoting us becasue were basically the last of our team, and the ref queitly tells us that there is a oppenent on the otherside of our spindle. The guy next to me watching the tapeline bends around the edge and lit the guy up from about 5ft away.

[AngelChaser]

Originally Posted by tshields

AngelChaser,

If the REFS don't know the rules and the players don't educate them, who is???? Should I as a player stoop to that low quality standard of reffing or should I expect the refs to know the rules and abide by and enforce them?

Who you jumping on here? Me? You better back up and know who you're insulting before you start a pissing contest. I know the rules of every game I ref. All of our team does. Can you and your 'team' say the same? I bet dime for dollar you can't, because you can't be bothered with something so pedestrian as reading the damn rules.

Originally Posted by tshields

I was recently at a game and a player walked into a group of the opfor and as surrender, as all 10 of the players sat there looking stupid, the ref went over and said to the guy, I can't call them out because they didn't know you were alive!!!! WTF, he was shooting at them, and then when we all got over ran he and myself just stopped shooting and stepped to the side (yes I was still "alive" as well).... It's your kind of thinking that pisses me off, fields should take the time to educate there refs and STOP HAVING THOSE WANNABE "AGG" SPEEDBALL TROLLS AT SCENARIO GAMES!!!

So that ref sucked. Cry me a river. You go to scenario games and get speedball refs then you need to look at that producer and ask why they are using substandard help, not tossing insults at members of one of the few scenario reffing teams.

Originally Posted by tshields

Also, all refs should have RADIOS and WATER (for themselves)......

If I offended anyone, SO WHAT!!!!!

We use radios, and we have our own water, thanks very much. As a matter of fact, we have provided water for silly players who were not smart enough to recognize the onset of heatstroke and dehydration.

And as far as offending someone, you didn't offend me, you attacked me personally with your comments. I have been playing longer than I care to recount, and reffing for 10 years. So don't hop up in here thinking you are someone special and are above reproach when you decide to try pissing in someone else's pool.

[Jako Dar]

Hello all,

This is my first post on the forum, although I have been reading for quite some time . . .

I feel that I need to weigh in on this topic. For the sake of context allow me to first say, I have been playing paintball for several years ("speedball" & "scenario") and have refereed several games. It has been my pleasure and shock to observe paintball players from many perspectives. Referees are a necessary part of the sport - or any competitive sport. There will always be situations where imperfect people (all of us) will loose tempers / perspectives or not know (or even care) about the rules. For the sake of fairness and objectivity someone has to enforce safety and the rules.

Referees should be professional, objective extensions of the field, the game and the rules. They should NEVER allow their own biases to interfere with their job - regardless of personal relationships. They should have full knowledge of the rules, the savy to not get fooled by players' B.S., and confidence in themselves to represent the sport / event. Anything less than that is a poor choice in a paintball referee.

However, once a referee makes a call players need to have the personal integrity to follow that call or contest it to the ultimate referee for that event in a professional manner - i.e. without any immature whining. Anything less that is a poor choice in a paintball player.

EVERYONE makes mistakes from time to time. It is human nature for us all (refs, players, spectators, etc. . . ). The only response is to give appropriately timed, constructive criticism followed by enough maturity to demonstrate grace to the one who made the mistake. Anything less is a poor choice in a human being.

I have refereed with the Discipline Lords before - I am an honorary member (since I am already the Team Captain of my own team). They are one of the FEW Scenario referee teams out there. We should all be thankful of their gift and dedication to the sport we love. We are ALL responsible for reading, understanding and following the rules. Those who can't need to stay at home and play video games. Maybe they would have better luck with Gregg Hasting's Paintball than in a real live competitive sport involving honor and integrity . . .

If I have offended someone out there with my post . . . GOOD. Anyone who gets offended by it needs to be offended and use the experience to grow up and check themselves. This is MY SPORT and I will defend it till I die.

[/rant]

[thumper]

Originally Posted by Jako Dar

Hello all ..

kick'in post sir. A bunch of ballers are working on a Scenario Reffing Training Manual to help the translation of speedball and recball reffing into scenario ball. I think your teammates (refmates?) may have some good experience to share..

Senario Reffing Manual - for Refs by Refs and players alike... - PBjunkie.com

Paintball Safety - PBjunkie.com


************ TABLE OF CONTENTS *************

Scenario games : What are they, and how are they different from big games, mass games

Referee : Definition, Types & Associated Responsibilites :

Customers : Who are the customers and how should they be treated? :

Field Preparations : what items should be addressed on the playing field that the refs may want to tend to in the weeks leading up to an event. (theme prep, ground hornets, bees, wasps, snakes, nails, boundaries, objectives, bases, doglegs, chronies, floors, dead trees, briars, garbage, trash containers, stump holes, fire extinguishers, burn barrels, open fires, fire wood, camping, parking, first aid kits, first responders, on-field transport, medical emergency plan, radios, flash lights, cylume sticks, hole punches, water coolers, atv's, air horns, bull horns, stage, signs, chrony calibrations, communications plan)

Medical Emergency Plan : examples, nearby hospitals, known first responders, fastest routes, atvs, doctors/players, emt players, first aid kits, legal requirements.

Reffing Plan : examples, rotations, player-refs, etc, water and food, lights.

Zone reffing : examples, when appropriate, rotating refs, etc. :

Mission refs, base refs and roaming refs, when appropriate, rotating refs, etc :

1 week before the game :

1 day before the game :

1 hour before the game :

15 minutes before the game :

Game On :

Spawns - Reinsertions - Medics :

Paint Checks - the right way (drive bys to full standing neutral body checks)

Bunkering and Drive bys : the novice vs ubergat, novice lock-up, the planned mutual.

Overshooting : how to handle, safety, when play becomes assault

Boundaries : how to handle accidents and intentional stuff. common confusions.

Bases : under attack -- base sacks -- with base spawns -- the Ref lead neutral group insertion.

Friends and Teammates : my friends who are playing -- how to handle

Spies : how to deal with them

Clever Players : and how to deal with them

Grey Areas - oh my : when is grey grey, and when grey becomes black. Grendel on "intentions"

Head Reffing 101 -

The Safety Briefing : printed rules, getting players to attend, stragglers, noise, bull horns.

Base Reffing 101 (chrono, spawns, novice guidance, heat signs, sacks, issuing missions, TIME!!!!, clean, exact Game starts, handy items to have handy)

Mission Reffing 101 (TIME, pushy players, clever players, spies on mission)

The Roaming Ref 101 (Paintchecks, heat, when things go to far, escallation, de-escallating, time-out and do-overs, chroney copping)

Scoring Missions : - when, how and what... and when exactly does a mission start...!

Radios : - do's and dont's

Laws, Tanks, Satchel Charges and Grenades :

Artillery, Air Strikes, Nukes and Bio Weapons :

Helicopters & Recon Planes :

Night play :

Heat & Adrenaline : problems on the horizon --

Mouthy players : how to handle

Drunk and/or Wasted Players : : what to look for, and how to handle

Fights : stop before it starts, lighten up, sportsmanship, allied next event, escallation, cops.

101 Common Cheats : what to look for, and how to handle (Deadman's walk, short cut spawn, staging spawn, talking dead men, w/ radios, dropped tape, collecting props during standdown)

Common Confusing Areas : and how to handle (game start and restart signal, loose boundaries, fake props,)

[tshields]

Originally Posted by 10-shot kid

garb, I say they just have to listen to the people with rulebooks on hand or players who by special cert./notice are well versed in the rules. At some games refs have listened to me over others because my reputation.

As I was trying to explain before this is a field bias that gives me an advantage because I dont have to wait for high command approval. There is many diffrent levels of favoritism, it's just the way it is. I'm more cocerned with the people who know they are cheating and can be stopped than blatant corruption thats both obvious and impossible for us to stop at field level.

They should know not to listen to you......

Originally Posted by Harbinger[TG]

You could at least spell check my name dude.

That is exactly what I was saying to shields. Who would the refs listen to, obviously me. I think the major issue is the lack of experience from the field owner/promoter all the way down to the refs.

Your name whenever you come back up to EMR will forever be GARB

Originally Posted by AngelChaser

Who you jumping on here? Me? You better back up and know who you're insulting before you start a pissing contest. I know the rules of every game I ref. All of our team does. Can you and your 'team' say the same? I bet dime for dollar you can't, because you can't be bothered with something so pedestrian as reading the damn rules.

Note that I really hate the online thuggery thats popping up all over the place, No need to be a tough guy ONLINE, I'm sorry that you got picked on in school and had no place to expel your anger but the internet is DEFINITELY NOT the place for that!!!!

And you should put your money where you mouth is!!!! We know the rules of the fields and producers of the games we go to, ask around, I'm sure you've heard of us......

Originally Posted by AngelChaser

So that ref sucked. Cry me a river. You go to scenario games and get speedball refs then you need to look at that producer and ask why they are using substandard help, not tossing insults at members of one of the few scenario reffing teams.

If you took my comment as an insult, your lame, it's my opinion and I don't know you nor have I ever even played at a game you were at, so how could my comments (previously) be direct at YOU OR YOUR TEAM????

I really HATE GLUE EATERS, but when in doubt, choose ELMERS!

Originally Posted by AngelChaser

We use radios, and we have our own water, thanks very much. As a matter of fact, we have provided water for silly players who were not smart enough to recognize the onset of heatstroke and dehydration.

And as far as offending someone, you didn't offend me, you attacked me personally with your comments. I have been playing longer than I care to recount, and reffing for 10 years. So don't hop up in here thinking you are someone special and are above reproach when you decide to try pissing in someone else's pool.

Do you always take a GENERALIZATION and make it PERSONAL??? And boy do you have some EGO issues if you think everything someone says is about YOU DIRECTLY..... Silly rabbit, tricks are for kids, and you need a SHRINK to displace all that anger!

[Mstrtal]

Every one needs to take a deep breath and calm down a little. Cool off a bit.

A heated discussion is all well and good but you guys are starting to skirt a little close to open insults and moving from debate to a flat out pissing contest. This is not aimed at any one person in the thread just a general advisement to every one to calm down a touch.

[a_sock]

all large games are prone to cheaters or bending of the rules. I went to castle conquest and thought the reffing staff was very good, but in mid game I dont know how many people I saw shooting in illegal modes, asked a ref to chrono them and they be over the limit by 20 or so, or see someone, get hit, wipe it, walk behind a building and jump right back in the game.